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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 18:25 - 18 Jun 2020    Post subject: Rubber strand Reply with quote

Just cleaning my chain and noticed a little bit Of rubber poking out. Obviously my concern is it’s part of the O ring (pretty sure it is as it’s firmly attached, which also suggests it’s a sliver of it not the whole thing). From what I can see the O ring looks intact otherwise though and the chain/sprockets only has 7k miles on it.

What do we think? New chain time or can I get away with monitoring until/if the link gets stiff then replace? I did notice it in one other place too but pulled that little sliver off (again it was attached but it snapped out quite easily and didn’t take the O ring with it).

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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:29 - 18 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could be a bit of O ring. Had the same on mine. I wouldn't say it's time to bin the chain if it is otherwise ok though. Remember, not all chains have o rings anyway. With mine, I just kept an eye on it, kept it well cleaned and lubed, regularly checked for stiff links. Had no problems yet (although not riding now, so I don't know how it'd go if I kept putting on the miles - not concerned though).
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:41 - 18 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an o-ring.

I wouldn't write of the chain immediately but it will wear at that point.
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Confusion
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PostPosted: 22:08 - 18 Jun 2020    Post subject: Re: Rubber strand Reply with quote

ThunderGuts wrote:
Just cleaning my chain and noticed a little bit Of rubber poking out. Obviously my concern is it’s part of the O ring...


It is a sliver of the O-ring. It's on the rivet link which suggests the
plate may not have been pressed on correctly when it was installed.

Quote:

only has 7k miles on it.


A Japanese made DID should have plenty of mileage left in
it at 7k. Made in Thailand DID could be getting towards end of life
at that mileage.

Quote:
What do we think? New chain time or can I get away with monitoring until/if the link gets stiff then replace?


Measure the chain length for 20 links. If it is well within spec,
you can: Keep it well oiled and check it regularly

or

remove the rivet link and fit a new one.

Quote:
I did notice it in one other place too but pulled that little sliver off (again it was attached but it snapped out quite easily and didn’t take the O ring with it).


If the O-rings are starting to fall apart, you will probably need a new chain
soon. I would suggest you spend some time inspecting the condition
of all the other O-rings, measure chain length and inspect the sprockets.
You will then be in a better position to decide whether you should
continue using it for another while or whether you need a new C&S set now.
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kramdra
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PostPosted: 23:41 - 18 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is an X ring chain, and that strip is the outer edge of the X. There is enough seal left that it should not wear much quicker if it is lubricated often.

I imagine bike has been unused for a few weeks and then been ridden with a dry chain, cutting up the seals on the rust. Quite a bit of rust there for 7k. Sealed chain does not mean you can ignore lubrication.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 05:37 - 19 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

kramdra wrote:
It is an X ring chain, and that strip is the outer edge of the X. There is enough seal left that it should not wear much quicker if it is lubricated often.

I imagine bike has been unused for a few weeks and then been ridden with a dry chain, cutting up the seals on the rust. Quite a bit of rust there for 7k. Sealed chain does not mean you can ignore lubrication.


https://youtu.be/VnPYdcbcAe0

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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 07:09 - 19 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would happily carry on using that. It's not like it's going to cause a catastrophic failure, at the most just accelerated wear.

Just keep it well lubricated, which you should be doing anyway, and carry on riding till it's worn out.
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 07:29 - 19 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers all. It is a Japanese DID chain. During my ownership (last 1k miles or so) it's been kept meticulously lubed and when I first went to look at it the chain was well adjusted, lubed and cleaned too.

I will measure the links to see what the stretch is like, but there is absolutely no movement when trying to lift the chain off the back of the rear sprocket and did do a measurement on the chain a few months back and it was showing no stretch at all compared with the stock figures. The rear sprocket itself looks unworn too (teeth are perfectly symmetrical with nice flat surfaces and a sharply defined square top).

I will have to whip the cover off and look at the front sprocket, but if it's in similar condition (and the chain is still not showing any stretch) I might be tempted to just change the chain and leave the sprockets (I know it goes against conventional wisdom, but if they're not worn at all and the chain isn't stretched either, may as well save the agro).

Edit: incidentally this is (presumably) the first chain the bike has had; it was new in Jan 2019, so the 7k mile figure I quoted is the total mileage on the bike too.
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Ayrton
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PostPosted: 08:07 - 19 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's on the rivet link, so surely you could just buy a new link instead of a whole chain?
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 08:17 - 19 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ayrton wrote:
It's on the rivet link, so surely you could just buy a new link instead of a whole chain?


It's not the only place on the chain unfortunately, I noticed it somewhere else (well, saying that, I think it was somewhere else, but the chain had been spun in the interim as I was drying the chain off with a rag so maybe it was actually at the same point and was part of the same defective X-ring. Thinking

That said, I wouldn't get much change from a tenner for a new master link plus P&P and given a brand new DID chain is £64 delivered.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 19 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThunderGuts wrote:


I will have to whip the cover off and look at the front sprocket, but if it's in similar condition (and the chain is still not showing any stretch) I might be tempted to just change the chain and leave the sprockets (I know it goes against conventional wisdom, but if they're not worn at all and the chain isn't stretched either, may as well save the agro).


Bottom line for me is money. Sure, if money is no object, replace the chain. I know I'm not replacing mine because of this same thing. If it then got to a point where it was likely to be a real issue, then I'd replace it. But while it's still perfectly functional throughout the range of use it would get, I'll keep the money in the bank. Meanwhile, just keep an eye on things. That's no extra work to me, because the chain is the thing that gets the most regular attention on my bike anyway, what with cleaning, lubing and adjusting.
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 11:59 - 19 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:

Bottom line for me is money. Sure, if money is no object, replace the chain. I know I'm not replacing mine because of this same thing. If it then got to a point where it was likely to be a real issue, then I'd replace it. But while it's still perfectly functional throughout the range of use it would get, I'll keep the money in the bank. Meanwhile, just keep an eye on things. That's no extra work to me, because the chain is the thing that gets the most regular attention on my bike anyway, what with cleaning, lubing and adjusting.


Not so much of a money is no object but rather I'd be more concerned about this chain wearing rapidly, taking the (currently excellent) sprockets with it and the cost of new sprockets isn't far off the cost of a chain alone (particularly as there doesn't seem to be an aftermarket rubber damped front sprocket available for sale anywhere for this bike). I'm going to give the chain a thorough inspection later as it's been cleaned but not re-lubed yet so it's easy to see any defects at the moment.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:04 - 19 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because of how much attention my chain gets, I'm likely to spot signs of wear pretty quickly, and so catch it before the sprockets really start to go. If the chain started to get noisy, or there was more vibration than usual not attributable to anything else, I'd think about replacing it. But if it is just a thin bit on the outside of the x ring, there's no saying it will get worse or wear quicker anyway. It might. It might not. In any case, I'd be confident I could catch it before any expense was caused. I'm allergic to expense Laughing
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 12:13 - 19 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Because of how much attention my chain gets, I'm likely to spot signs of wear pretty quickly, and so catch it before the sprockets really start to go. If the chain started to get noisy, or there was more vibration than usual not attributable to anything else, I'd think about replacing it. But if it is just a thin bit on the outside of the x ring, there's no saying it will get worse or wear quicker anyway. It might. It might not. In any case, I'd be confident I could catch it before any expense was caused.


I might get a chain in and ready and be extra attentive to chain wear. Good compromise. Thumbs Up

chickenstrip wrote:
I'm allergic to expense Laughing


*checks location* but you're south of the border? Question Laughing
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MCN
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PostPosted: 12:14 - 19 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

O-ring chains do not stretch like non-o-ring chains.
The sealed Pin and Bush assembly prevents pin and bush wear thats a problem in non-o-ring chains.
The sprocket teeth wear and side-plates may get a bit rusty.
'Pitch Extension' is where the wear between pins and bushes are accumulated to provide a measurable dimension. Normally over 5 pins. (Distance between the centres of pins in one link times 5.)
A new chain should be almost zero.
A worn chain will be more.
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 12:20 - 19 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
O-ring chains do not stretch like non-o-ring chains.
The sealed Pin and Bush assembly prevents pin and bush wear thats a problem in non-o-ring chains.
The sprocket teeth wear and side-plates may get a bit rusty.
'Pitch Extension' is where the wear between pins and bushes are accumulated to provide a measurable dimension. Normally over 5 pins. (Distance between the centres of pins in one link times 5.)
A new chain should be almost zero.
A worn chain will be more.


Except presumably if the seals are going, in which case the pins/bushes haven't got the lubricant they should have (and I doubt sprayed on lubrication would ever reach into there).
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:35 - 19 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
O-ring chains do not stretch like non-o-ring chains.
The sealed Pin and Bush assembly prevents pin and bush wear thats a problem in non-o-ring chains.
The sprocket teeth wear and side-plates may get a bit rusty.
'Pitch Extension' is where the wear between pins and bushes are accumulated to provide a measurable dimension. Normally over 5 pins. (Distance between the centres of pins in one link times 5.)
A new chain should be almost zero.
A worn chain will be more.


What is this sorcery? Begone oh evil one, and let us not consider the quantum effects of chain wear!
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Tdibs
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PostPosted: 12:52 - 19 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive had this happen on a did xring chain also. Just kept on top of usual oiling and it lasted its usual life.
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 18:09 - 19 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Close inspection revealed one other link with the same issue (same side too interestingly). I have ordered a replacement chain but will just monitor closely for now but have a backup ready just in case. Current chain is saturated with lube now, particularly the two defective links.
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FretGrinder
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PostPosted: 22:34 - 19 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
It's an o-ring.

I wouldn't write of the chain immediately but it will wear at that point.


Lies, it's a powerband.

You can tell it's the fast one because it's black.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 05:21 - 20 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThunderGuts wrote:
MCN wrote:
O-ring chains do not stretch like non-o-ring chains.
The sealed Pin and Bush assembly prevents pin and bush wear thats a problem in non-o-ring chains.
The sprocket teeth wear and side-plates may get a bit rusty.
'Pitch Extension' is where the wear between pins and bushes are accumulated to provide a measurable dimension. Normally over 5 pins. (Distance between the centres of pins in one link times 5.)
A new chain should be almost zero.
A worn chain will be more.


Except presumably if the seals are going, in which case the pins/bushes haven't got the lubricant they should have (and I doubt sprayed on lubrication would ever reach into there).


Well if the seals have failed then one doesn't have a 'sealed' chain any more so effects/rules for non-sealed chain apply.

Or were you trusting pedant?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 09:06 - 20 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

FretGrinder wrote:
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
It's an o-ring.

I wouldn't write of the chain immediately but it will wear at that point.


Lies, it's a powerband.

You can tell it's the fast one because it's black.


I always thought the power band strapped around the pistons to pull them up and down Confused
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MCN
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 20 Jun 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:

I always thought the power band strapped around the pistons to pull them up and down Confused


This /\
Earlier Powerbands were attached to the piston/s but later development saw powerbands fitted to the CDI or woven into the engine harnesses.
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