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Rear shock cross compatibility?

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stirlinggaz
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PostPosted: 19:02 - 17 Aug 2020    Post subject: Rear shock cross compatibility? Reply with quote

Hi all,
My rear shock is f*cked.
It's proving impossible to find a replacement. Very few used examples come up & when they do, they generally are in worse condition than mine.
Being a "budget" type shock it's not worth rebuilding, if it could be done.
Even the makers of aftermarket shocks don't do one for my bike, as it's not too common.
Anyway I know the length of the shock from eye to eye. (345mm)
I've seen a couple of decent (oem & aftermarket) shocks for other bikes which are same length.
Would it be a bad idea to try one of these shocks?
Is there anything else I should consider?


cheers,
GAZ
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 19:06 - 17 Aug 2020    Post subject: Re: Rear shock cross compatibility? Reply with quote

stirlinggaz wrote:

Is there anything else I should consider?


I'd strongly recommend saying what make and model of bike it is...
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 19:16 - 17 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.nitron.co.uk/products/motorcycles/ntr-r1-shock
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jeffyjeff
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PostPosted: 19:31 - 17 Aug 2020    Post subject: Re: Rear shock cross compatibility? Reply with quote

stirlinggaz wrote:
I know the length of the shock from eye to eye. (345mm)
I've seen a couple of decent (oem & aftermarket) shocks for other bikes which are same length.
Would it be a bad idea to try one of these shocks?
Is there anything else I should consider?

Hi Gaz,
I would consider the weight of the bike. If the shock is the same length and has the same mounting hardware, it should work. The only variable being the weight of bike and rider. If the aftermarket shock is for a bike that is considerably heavier than yours, the ride is likely to be too hard. See if you can find a shock made for a bike that is similar to yours in dimensions and performance. Don't hesitate to call the manufacturer customer support for help.
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stirlinggaz
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PostPosted: 05:20 - 18 Aug 2020    Post subject: Re: Rear shock cross compatibility? Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:


I'd strongly recommend saying what make and model of bike it is...


Hi,
Why? I'm unable to find an oem replacement for it.
Feel free to have a look around for a shock for Yamaha TDR125 later model (after 92 iirc)
I know the length of the original. Spring size etc so I'm looking for something that will fit.
But it was more of a hypothetical question.
If i were to find a shock of same size, with same mounting type (eyes at both ends) off a bike kinda similar (its an "enduro") what's to stop me fitting it?
Would it be suitable? How much thought did Yamaha put into the original, seeing as it's a budget, non adjustable piece of crap?

I see the Chinese sell "universal " shocks & even have them the correct "size" but I'd rather stick to something off a bike I've heard of.

cheers,
GAZ
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stirlinggaz
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PostPosted: 05:23 - 18 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:

Hi,
Nice shocks but don't list 1 for my bike.
I'm presuming they don't do custom builds which would be out of my price range anyway.

cheers,
GAZ
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 07:30 - 18 Aug 2020    Post subject: Re: Rear shock cross compatibility? Reply with quote

stirlinggaz wrote:

Hi,
Why? I'm unable to find an oem replacement for it.


So we can get an idea of what the original one looks like to see if there is anything odd about it. or even to confirm it's a mono or twin shock, which was implied but not 100% clear in your OP. Not all shocks are made the same way. Some have oddball mountings, other have a shorter sprung area with a longer damper section to fit through bits of frame etc.

So it's a TDR125? Which from pictures appears to be a mostly vanilla, preload adjustable monoshock with an unusually wide top mount.

It's mostly about the length and spring rate and there certainly are Chinese places online that sell shocks by length so if you were to get one that length designed for a roughly equivalent weight bike, you'll probably be close on the money. As with all chinese stuff, quality varies massively so you take a gamble. i do know quite a few club racers who use them so good ones are out there.

That top mount is a little trickier, you're probably going to need to make up a couple of alloy or steel spacers. You might be able to cut down the original sleeve for this.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 07:26 - 19 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you do a side on picture including the side and bottom of the cylinder, having seen a picture of one it would seem to be easily rebuildable.
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stirlinggaz
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 19 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
Can you do a side on picture including the side and bottom of the cylinder, having seen a picture of one it would seem to be easily rebuildable.

Hi,
Didn't really think of getting it rebuilt seeing as it's a budget item anyway.
ive uploaded a pic...

cheers,
GAZ
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stirlinggaz
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 19 Aug 2020    Post subject: Re: Rear shock cross compatibility? Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:


So we can get an idea of what the original one looks like to see if there is anything odd about it. or even to confirm it's a mono or twin shock, which was implied but not 100% clear in your OP. Not all shocks are made the same way. Some have oddball mountings, other have a shorter sprung area with a longer damper section to fit through bits of frame etc.

So it's a TDR125? Which from pictures appears to be a mostly vanilla, preload adjustable monoshock with an unusually wide top mount.

It's mostly about the length and spring rate and there certainly are Chinese places online that sell shocks by length so if you were to get one that length designed for a roughly equivalent weight bike, you'll probably be close on the money. As with all chinese stuff, quality varies massively so you take a gamble. i do know quite a few club racers who use them so good ones are out there.

That top mount is a little trickier, you're probably going to need to make up a couple of alloy or steel spacers. You might be able to cut down the original sleeve for this.


Hi,
Apologies. I didn't give enough details but the there's nothing too unusual about it so didn't bother with pics.
But it's a mono shock off a TDR125.
it's 345mm from eye to eye.
Bottom mount is 40mm
Top mount 30mm (is that unusually wide?)
I have a note (somewhere) of spring rate & iirc length.
I'm seriously tempted by the Chinese option if nothing pops up on ebay France or on 1 of the polish sites.

cheers,
GAZ
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 14:13 - 19 Aug 2020    Post subject: Re: Rear shock cross compatibility? Reply with quote

stirlinggaz wrote:

it's 345mm from eye to eye.
Bottom mount is 40mm
Top mount 30mm (is that unusually wide?)


Sorry, bottom mount seems wide wasn't clear which way round it was in pictures. Looks a lot wider than that in the pictures though. You may well need to fabricate some sort of spacer if you're using aftermarket ones though. Maybe even just a couple of alloy slugs and use the original pin.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Kris
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PostPosted: 14:40 - 19 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-Tdr-125-5AN-Shock-Strut-Yellow/402348824528?hash=item5daddbd7d0:g:CggAAOSwFJ1fJ8Lx

£140 delivered OEM secondhand
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stirlinggaz
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PostPosted: 16:33 - 19 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kris wrote:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-Tdr-125-5AN-Shock-Strut-Yellow/402348824528?hash=item5daddbd7d0:g:CggAAOSwFJ1fJ8Lx

£140 delivered OEM secondhand

Hi,
Yeah seen that, way overpriced & no guaruntee it's any better than what i have.
Seen them go for 50 euros & postage which I would be prepared to risk.
Besides I can get 1 from Poland for half that.

cheer,
GAZ
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kgm
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PostPosted: 17:14 - 19 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably overkill but

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264523430918
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Kris
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PostPosted: 18:16 - 19 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

stirlinggaz wrote:

Yeah seen that, way overpriced & no guaruntee it's any better than what i have.
Seen them go for 50 euros & postage which I would be prepared to risk.
Besides I can get 1 from Poland for half that.

cheer,
GAZ


German parts have always seemed better quality when I've bought them - no idea if it's part of their more regulated culture or anything - just always seemed to be a bit 'nicer'. Anyway good luck to you - I'd wager it's still better than a Chinesium POS...
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 18:16 - 19 Aug 2020    Post subject: Re: Rear shock cross compatibility? Reply with quote

stirlinggaz wrote:
My rear shock is f*cked

What exactly is f*cked about it? The damping, or something else?
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stirlinggaz
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PostPosted: 19:06 - 19 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

kgm wrote:

Hi,
Seen these advertised but they say it's not suitable for the later bikes ( 94 onwards iirc) although I'm not sure if there are actually any differences.
I've emailed them asking for measurements.
This was actually the reason I posted in 1st place as it made me think that if a shock has same fittings, same length & its for the same type of bike, what's to stop me fitting it?
Overkill maybe, but nice bit of kit & I would seriously consider it IF it was gaurunteed to fit.

cheers,
GAZ
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stirlinggaz
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PostPosted: 19:10 - 19 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kris wrote:


German parts have always seemed better quality when I've bought them - no idea if it's part of their more regulated culture or anything - just always seemed to be a bit 'nicer'. Anyway good luck to you - I'd wager it's still better than a Chinesium POS...


Hi,
I agree, everything I have bought from Germany has been in excellent condition.
But there seems to be a lot more of these bikes in France & therefore prices tend to be cheaper.
Chinese shock would be a last resort & only a temporary solution.

cheers,
GAZ
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 01:39 - 20 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

stirlinggaz wrote:
sickpup wrote:
Can you do a side on picture including the side and bottom of the cylinder, having seen a picture of one it would seem to be easily rebuildable.

Hi,
Didn't really think of getting it rebuilt seeing as it's a budget item anyway.
ive uploaded a pic...

cheers,
GAZ


You could rebuild that yourself, it's a very simple design and with one simple addition it would become a much better shock.

1. You could remove and powder coat the spring.
2. As there is a removable threaded plug on the body it can be opened up and the suspension fluid changed.
3. While disassembled the body can be cleaned up and painted as can the preload adjuster.
4. Change the piston rod seal.
5. Change all the bushes.
6. if you want to be really trick you can drill a hole and TIG weld a schraeder valve to the top of the body so it can be charged with nitrogen to stop the shock fluid foaming under use.

Other than No.6 none of that list would be hard to do by the looks of it and nothing that expensive. Considering the age of all the other 2nd hand shocks, 20 years + it seems a bit pointless to buy one.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 06:43 - 20 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
You could rebuild that yourself, it's a very simple design and with one simple addition it would become a much better shock.

That's why I asked what the matter is with it, but he doesn't seem to know. One other point is that the bottom silentblock bush seems to have been turning in the mounting, so both it and the insides of the mounting will be worn. The silentblock bushing is likely to be an off-the-shelf item; the mounting not. May be possible to shim.
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stirlinggaz
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PostPosted: 11:13 - 20 Aug 2020    Post subject: Re: Rear shock cross compatibility? Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
stirlinggaz wrote:
My rear shock is f*cked

What exactly is f*cked about it? The damping, or something else?

Hi,
tbh I can't remember what the mot tester said but he recommended changing it.
When riding, it was very hard & making a helluva a racket.
It also seemed to be bouncing up & down more than it should lol

cheer,
GAZ
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stirlinggaz
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PostPosted: 11:18 - 20 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:

You could rebuild that yourself, it's a very simple design and with one simple addition it would become a much better shock.

1. You could remove and powder coat the spring.
Considering the age of all the other 2nd hand shocks, 20 years + it seems a bit pointless to buy one.


Hi,
Didn't think these were rebuildable (the yellow warning sticker put me off, I presumed it had nitrogen inside)
So how does one go about stripping it down?
Firstly, how do i get the spring off?

cheers,
GAZ
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 11:56 - 20 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might be able to do it by hand. You might need to compress the spring with something, though. Try it. Adjust the adjuster to the softest setting by turning it, put the bottom of the shock absorber on something solid like a workbench, or in a vice, get your hands around the top bit, at the top of the spring, as if you were trying to strangle it, and push down. If the spring can be compressed by hand, you will be able to pop out the collets or remove the collar if it's one of the sort with a gap in it, and that will allow you to remove the spring. If the spring's too strong to compress by hand, improvise with clamps or something, and get the collar or collets off as before, then get the spring off.

Once the spring's off, you can test the damper. Work it down and up, and see a) if there's any damping (or squishy bubbling noises), in which case there's at least some oil in it, or b) whether after you push the top of the damper down, it pops back up again, in which case there's still at least some gas in it.

Edit: I've just looked at your pic, the spring looks rather tough, it might not compress easily by hand. Clamp job or similar if not, but no harm done seeing if it will compress.

Edit again: It won't explode if you just get the spring off! Do that first, then come back Smile
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stirlinggaz
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PostPosted: 12:21 - 20 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
You might be able to do it by hand. You might need to compress the spring with something, though. Try it. Adjust the adjuster to the softest setting by turning it, put the bottom of the shock absorber on something solid like a workbench, or in a vice, get your hands around the top bit, at the top of the spring, as if you were trying to strangle it, and push down. If the spring can be compressed by hand, you will be able to pop out the collets or remove the collar if it's one of the sort with a gap in it, and that will allow you to remove the spring. If the spring's too strong to compress by hand, improvise with clamps or something, and get the collar or collets off as before, then get the spring off.


Hi,
Therein lies the problem.
The adjuster at bottom doesn't move & I haven't thought of a way to compress the spring, it's quite a hefty bugger.
Any ideas?
I did try a spring compressor thingy intended for car shocks but couldn't get it to hook onto the coils.
I presume there is a motorcycle shock equivalent tool?

cheers,
GAZ
Edit : just looked up the correct tool to compress spring..50 quid for something I'm likely to never use again.
As much as I like buying tools I think I'll pass.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 12:54 - 20 Aug 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I generally stick the bottom of the shock (i.e. the inner of the silentblock bush) between the jaws of my vice, and with a cord around the vice and the ends of a couple of bits of angle iron passed through the coils use them as levers, I have seen it done using straps and a small hydraulic trolley jack. The thing is you only have to compress the spring just enough to remove the collets or whatever.I'll try a pic...

Edit:
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