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eScooters legalised from Saturday

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Pete.
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PostPosted: 09:55 - 12 Jul 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Pete. wrote:
A human can't produce one horsepower for very long - seconds not minutes. Your average leisure cyclist - the person that electric bikes are used by - will produce probably a quarter of that.


Why would they need to? You only need that peak power to get up to speed then you just pedal hard enough to overcome wind and rolling resistance.


They don't, not even to get up to speed.
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G
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 12 Jul 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
The gear cassettes don't help that much though, an 3-gear IGH is more than sufficient.

I'd say a cassette is noticeably better.
But yes, the 3 gear IGH is 'sufficent'.

As it goes; I have both a mid drive with a 3 speed IGH and a mid drive with a 10 speed 11-36 cassette... I also have an eight speed 11- 48 e-bike specific chain set, but not got around to putting it on yet. (I don't need the extra low gears with my 52 front, but bigger gaps in gears and better shifting under power would be good - I always stop peddling pretty much when changing.)
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arry
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PostPosted: 14:31 - 29 Jul 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-53579448


POW - right in the kisser.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 20:16 - 29 Jul 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

"On 4 July rental e-scooters became legal on roads in Great Britain, but it is an offence to ride a privately owned one on a public road, cycle lane or pavement in the UK - these scooters can only be used on private land with permission of the landowner."

Yes I'm sure EVERYONE in the UK is abiding by that law Confused
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 21:23 - 29 Jul 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

bhinso wrote:
"On 4 July rental e-scooters became legal on roads in Great Britain, but it is an offence to ride a privately owned one on a public road, cycle lane or pavement in the UK - these scooters can only be used on private land with permission of the landowner."

Yes I'm sure EVERYONE in the UK is abiding by that law Confused

If they would keep off the pavements/footpaths and on the road I would not be worried, but with their bldy segments and scooters and motorised skateboards WITH cyclists on the pavement, the use of a cricket bat should be legitimised.
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 21:56 - 29 Jul 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

wr6133 wrote:
MCN wrote:
but a civil case would stand.


Claiming your £4k of car damages back from a benefit bum at £5 a month.

I think the cow catcher was a good idea Laughing


If someone on an escooter can do 4k worth of damages they're either a fat git or the car costs too much.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:14 - 16 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

An update from the metropolis of Milton Keynes, the centre of scooter guinea pig testing country.

We have 3 different hire companies running scooters on test in the town (although one seems to have dropped out recently as I haven't seen their scooters).

It is polarising the town completely. There are those that love them, and they are used quite a bit, and those that despise them, older people, dog walkers, towpath users and road users.

The problem from what I see is non of the rule/laws are being enforced. They go on roads, whole families use them. Kids who obviously aren't old enough to have any licence. Packs of the younger element use them to get back fro the centre when pissed because they use the redways (cycle and pedestrian paths in MK) where the police don't want to/bother going.

There have been a few nasty accidents, mostly gravel rash and old people being knocked over but it seems the blame is not being apportioned to the scooters. There have, as far as I know, been no prosecutions.

Which leads me to the conclusion the the powers that be are going to give it a clean bill of health and pass fit to be rolled out all over the country.

I dread to think what pandemonium mass scooters on the cycle ways of London will cause. At least in MK we have spread out roads, cycleways and the like. If you think push bikes in London is manic, wait till the scooters hit in force. Laughing

The only way I can see it working in London as a precursor of a total car ban from the congestion zone, which is probably exactly what Khan and TFL are planning.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 14:02 - 16 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looter-scooters more like.

The urge to clothesline is strong when they are on the pavement....
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 15:37 - 16 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

A thought I had recently: if they say eScooters are okay for general use then maybe Segways and the kids' "hoverboards" will make a comeback Thinking
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Vladimir
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PostPosted: 11:08 - 03 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
but the reality is the lycra mob don't give a flying and no one's interested in pulling them up over it.


Oh, crikey, not this old chestnut!
Most cyclists are perfectly normal people who behave in a considerate way.
There seems to be some kind of weird "disease" whereby for some reason, people only notice the bad cyclists...

I've cycled daily in London for 8 years and The vast majority of cyclists stop at red lights and ride in such a way that simply makes them fade into the background, in other words there's nothing to look at. They don't cause anyone any trouble.

There's the odd cyclist that does stupid shit, but what there is not is a big problem of people who to break the law/highway code taking to a bike to do it.

In fact, in London they did a few observational studies of how many people jump red lights - and they found that the percentage of cyclists was essentially equal to the percentage of drivers who did it (around 10% in both cases, cyclists slightly less).
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 11:55 - 03 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vladimir wrote:

In fact, in London they did a few observational studies of how many people jump red lights - and they found that the percentage of cyclists was essentially equal to the percentage of drivers who did it (around 10% in both cases, cyclists slightly less).


Bullshit. Where were they doing their study - Richmond Park? Or are they skewing statistics by comparing motorists who make marginal calls on a lights change to cyclist who blithely continue through a light that's half way through a red cycle? There's a huge increase in interference-factor once the opposing traffic has a green and got moving.

I ride in London every day all year round and the proportion of red lights I stop at where a cyclist will carry on through it is greater than the proportion where all of them will stop.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:40 - 03 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I live on the old 2012 Olympic cycling route and I stand by my comments.

Here's a tip though: if you want to quote studies with dramatic and counter-intuitive results it's best to quote a source.
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Vladimir
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PostPosted: 14:02 - 03 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been about 7 or so years since I've ready the study.
I have no idea as to the source anymore.

What is definitely clear is that we're all biased.
I could tell all sorts of tall tales of shit I've seen motorcyclists do in London, but you'll probably think they're made up or specifically selected to paint a bad picture. To be perfectly honest, motorcyclists in London were generally great, but the odd one did extremely dangerous shit. When cyclists do stupid shit, at least they're not as lethal. Not an excuse, mind...

I'm no longer in London, haven't been since around 2014. Maybe things have changed, maybe I used to commute on roads used by a disproportionate amount of law abiding cyclists. Somehow I don't think so.

But to each their own, and you're not going to change my opinion, and I'm not going to change yours.

There's definitely a difference in behaviour of different types of vehicle users in different places.

What is a definite constant is thar cars do fucked up shit wherever you go. Probably because almost everyone has a car, and there's more cars than anything else. So, statistically that's going to happen. It's also why car drivers get away relatively lightly when they kill pedestrians or other vehicle users. Almost every juror drives, and they can relate to bullshit excuses like "I didn't see x", "I was blinded by the sun" and the like.

For what it's worth, being a cyclist is one of the reasons/things that's led me to becoming a motorcyclist. I also drive.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 14:25 - 03 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vladimir wrote:
It's been about 7 or so years since I've ready the study.
I have no idea as to the source anymore.

The numbers don't quite match what you've said and it's from 8 years ago rather than 7 but you might be referring to something from the Institute of Advanced Motorists.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2012/may/14/cycling-red-light-jumping-iam-survey

https://web.archive.org/web/20130221093549/www.iam.org.uk/media-and-research/media-centre/news-archive/1054-more-than-half-of-cyclists-jump-red-lights
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Vladimir
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PostPosted: 15:06 - 03 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Vladimir wrote:
It's been about 7 or so years since I've ready the study.
I have no idea as to the source anymore.

The numbers don't quite match what you've said and it's from 8 years ago rather than 7 but you might be referring to something from the Institute of Advanced Motorists.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2012/may/14/cycling-red-light-jumping-iam-survey

https://web.archive.org/web/20130221093549/www.iam.org.uk/media-and-research/media-centre/news-archive/1054-more-than-half-of-cyclists-jump-red-lights


I can see this descending into a protracted back and forth about cyclists.

I really should have known better than to try and discuss cyclists; once people have certain views, they are extremely difficult to shift.

My mistake for referring to a study that I didn't have a reference for, I'll hold my hands up to that.

It has to be said that once a specific view is held, supporting evidence for it can be found if you look hard enough.

At the end of the day, I'm going to stand by my statement regarding cyclists. The over-arching message is that the there are assholes in this world, some choose to drive, some cycle, some ride a motorcycle.

Over the years I've noticed that whenever you get a cyclist hater, they will have some sort of reason to hate them. A firm favourite of mine is "they don't pay road tax". When I burst their bubble that there's no such thing as road tax, vehicle emissions tax is not ring-fenced for roads, and we all have pay for the roads...the cyclist haters immediately find another excuse as to why cyclists are scum. These vary from "they all jump red lights!" (impossible) to "they just look silly" (as if that's a good reason to hate a whole group).
In the end it all boils down to jealousy, cycling is extremely low cost and you can filter.
Car drivers being overtaken by filtering cyclists are pissed off that the cyclist doesn't need a licence, doesn't pay for fuel, car tax, etc etc, and their bike can cost as little as £200. (or be a free hand me down).

I'm a little bit disappointed/surprised that there are cyclist haters amongst motorcycle riders; for obvious reasons. My fault for misjudging the situation.

Like I said before, I won't change your opinion, you won't change mine. Let's not waste any more time discussing this back and forth. I thought my overarching statement was relatively unbiased and would ring true for most reasonable people, but clearly in some people's eyes I'll always be wrong,

I think I'll stick to other areas of this forum, such as "new riders", rather than "biking news and rumours".
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Ste
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PostPosted: 16:03 - 03 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vladimir wrote:
I can see this descending into a protracted back and forth about cyclists.

I really should have known better than to try and discuss cyclists; once people have certain views, they are extremely difficult to shift.

Hand

Jumping red lights on a push bike when done properly makes it easier for everyone else however that requires timing rather than just sailing straight through oblivious to other traffic.

Vladimir wrote:
supporting evidence for it can be found if you look hard enough.

The supporting evidence from that IAM survey isn't impartial and their sample size is quite small anyway.

There's little point going further into discussions about whether cyclists are worse than Hitler and the VED thing has been done to death. When people get arsey about cyclists not paying VED, you can also point out to them that there's an ever increasing number of cars on the roads that aren't required to PAY VED.

It's been nice and sunny today, I probably should have gone out cycling. Sad
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Vladimir
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PostPosted: 16:15 - 03 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:

It's been nice and sunny today, I probably should have gone out cycling. Sad


I might have done the same, or even got on the mighty 125cc, but at 3 degrees outside in "sunny Bolton" I decided to give it a miss.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:19 - 03 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vladimir wrote:
Ste wrote:

It's been nice and sunny today, I probably should have gone out cycling. Sad


I might have done the same, or even got on the mighty 125cc, but at 3 degrees outside in "sunny Bolton" I decided to give it a miss.


Ste's cycle is worth much more than most 125s....
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 19:49 - 03 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to be fair "dia-fucking-bollock-all liberties" have gone up rather than down in recent year in the City (my opinion.)

Motorcyclists? Way too few now to even pass comment so I'll not even bother letting my biases creep in Wink

Scooters on the other hand... if you're turning left check your left shoulder: there'll be a scooter on the inside regardless of your indicator being on and regardless of the fact you're less than 2ft from the curb Shocked

Couriers? Not a big deal as they're mostly static obstacles parked in daft places but remember: where's there's van there's a man! Actually that's a bit sexist now considering my local Hermes courier is a robust lesbican Smile

And then of course there's mini-cabs where Mohammad* has not only borrowed his brother's car for a few shifts but his driving licence too Rolling Eyes

*Other forms of racism are available upon request
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Fat_Angry_Scotsman
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PostPosted: 10:03 - 18 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vladimir wrote:
The vast majority of cyclists stop at red lights


https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/023/021/e02e5ffb5f980cd8262cf7f0ae00a4a9_press-x-to-doubt-memes-memesuper-la-noire-doubt-meme_419-238.png
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 19:12 - 19 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did someone mention cycling? That lovely activity with incidents like these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PesNF9mUaAg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Fpe1Yetv2E


Vladimir wrote:

I'm a little bit disappointed/surprised that there are cyclist haters amongst motorcycle riders; for obvious reasons. My fault for misjudging the situation.


because most cycling is shit and most bikes are shit that turn their riders into hunchbacked gimps. Tour de france has a lot to blame for.
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