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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 11:00 - 13 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:


Profit is not bad per se, it's an indication that the business (whatever it is) is running efficiently enough to have money left over. That being said the alternative - shock, horror - is run it as a charity. How come no one ever mentions this as an alternative to the privatise / public ownership debate?


They have it's called the voluntary sector. A large section of social care and social support services are provided by organisations that are registered charities. It was a good system when it was well funded as it had a lot of small operators able to offer a diverse range of methods of service delivery. Unfortunately due to squeezing of funding pre and post austerity these diverse organisations have been paired down into big mega charities. Operating on meagre budgets all they can do is the very minimum required to conform to the rules on service standards.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:27 - 13 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hmm... we have a lot of "corporate entities" i.e. ways to run a business/organisation but they all seem to fall short in some way. I like the sound of Mr. Stinkwheel's co-ops though Thinking

With regards to working patterns AFAIK any shift system would get slapped down by the consultants. It's gonna be a hard sell to stop them playing golf at the weekend.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:13 - 13 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:

With regards to working patterns AFAIK any shift system would get slapped down by the consultants. It's gonna be a hard sell to stop them playing golf at the weekend.


But they could play golf on a Wednesday when the plebs are at work.

Anyway, you could just make it part of any new contracts.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 18:25 - 13 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
Adopt a 7 day working week where all staff are on a staggered 5-on, 2-off working pattern[/u] so there are as many staff working on a Sunday as there are on a Wednesday. Routine work is not being carried out at weekends.

This. See my story of my my mum above... she was admitted to a ward on Thursday morning and they're trying to find out what's wrong with her: we had no idea when she might possibly be discharged (ie, could have been any time, with essentially no notice) until late in Friday afternoon when it was suddenly "well, it will now not be until Monday at the absolute earliest because nothing will happen until then". How mad is that? So my mum is in hospital poorly sick over the weekend, blocking a bed, with absolutely no progress likely till Monday Rolling Eyes
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BanditsHigh
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PostPosted: 19:09 - 13 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
^^^ Mate had a pacemaker fitted on a Friday, it was supposed to be done in the morning but a few emergencies pushed it back to late afternoon.

He commented how they were all congratulating themselves for getting it done quick and how it meant they could get to the pub on time.

Within an hour of it being fitted it started shocking him for no reason ... everyone away to the pub, no one left to do the settings, so spent the entire weekend in hospital, being constantly shocked ... finally got it fixed on the Monday.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 22:31 - 13 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have to say when I had heart failure the NHS were superb. There again, when I had a skin graft failure and deposited a litre or so of blood all over Tescos they didn't turn up for 2 hours and the only reason I survived was an army medic who was doing his shopping.

In my view it's time it went back to basics. Saving lives, serious illness. No cosmetics/fertility/gender or anything like that. You need that, you pay for it.

But that won't happen. It's like that family with the boy who was brain dead yet he was kept alive on a ventilator at the cost of millions because his family wouldn't admit he was gone. Sad yes, but if doctors said it was the end, it should have been the end.

A huge stripping of practices down is needed.
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 13 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Daily castor oil and enemas for all patients, that'll stop the malingerers bed blocking.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 08:02 - 14 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
I have to say when I had heart failure the NHS were superb. There again, when I had a skin graft failure and deposited a litre or so of blood all over Tescos they didn't turn up for 2 hours and the only reason I survived was an army medic who was doing his shopping.

In my view it's time it went back to basics. Saving lives, serious illness. No cosmetics/fertility/gender or anything like that. You need that, you pay for it.

But that won't happen. It's like that family with the boy who was brain dead yet he was kept alive on a ventilator at the cost of millions because his family wouldn't admit he was gone. Sad yes, but if doctors said it was the end, it should have been the end.

A huge stripping of practices down is needed.


Interesting, so what percentage of NHS funding is taken up with such cases?

Perhaps if we weren't all so cavalier with our own health choices and not eating bad food and sitting around watching TV that might save more money.
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 08:23 - 14 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
yen_powell wrote:
Daily castor oil enemas for all patients,.


FIFY Shocked Shocked Thumbs Up
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grr666
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PostPosted: 10:37 - 14 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:

No cosmetics/fertility/gender or anything like that. You WANT that, you pay for it.


FTFY. None of those are necessities.

They are treatments of vanity and entitlement, nothing more. Cosmetics after a disfiguring accident,
illness or malicious attack are fair enough, but breast reduction and enlargement just to make the person feel
better? Come on? How is that anything but unnecessarily indulgent?

Also the cost to the NHS (and social services for that matter) for extra care (over and above the already
huge cost for the usual care and monitoring of all new born babies) for the genetically damaged babies born
to certain cultures with a penchant for shagging their own cousins is alarming as well. But nobody wants to
talk about that.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4480220/Brave-daughter-tackling-ethnic-taboo-costs-NHS.html

Then there's the rampant health tourism, with no efforts made at all to recover the money for 'free' treatment
administered to those with no right to use the National Health Service. The clue is in the title. No legal
right to be here? No right to free treatment. If I fall sick overseas on holiday for instance and don't have the
appropriate insurance I can expect a massive bill.

Then there are the ludicrous contracts that the alleged 'management' of procurement are signing off on. Stupidly
high prices for things like toilet rolls and syringes. With no effort to get any value for money.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nhs-flushes-25m-down-toilet-4029928

Meanwhile, my ear can bleed for four days and nights and I can't get seen for a basic GP appointment.
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Nobby the Bastard
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Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 14 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Actually we have reciprical agreements with a lot of countries so that their citizens can use our NHS and ours can use theirs.
The process is supposed toi be we bill their governments for them using our services and vice versa.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-reciprocal-healthcare-agreements-with-non-eu-countries
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:14 - 14 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Actually we have reciprical agreements with a lot of countries so that their citizens can use our NHS and ours can use theirs.
The process is supposed toi be we bill their governments for them using our services and vice versa.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-reciprocal-healthcare-agreements-with-non-eu-countries


Yes, you see, all these moaners should have got sick abroad and then they would have got treated just fine Laughing
Anyone still feel like clapping for the NHS?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 13:08 - 14 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm just making the point that health tourism isn't likely to be the cause. Why would anyone come here to our collapsing health service when they can get better treatment elsewhere?
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 13:25 - 14 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
we have reciprical agreements with a lot of countries

It's a very small number of countries that we have reciprocal healthcare agreements and those agreements are a very long way from being that we can use their healthcare services and they can use ours.

The list on the page you linked to is just over 10% of the total number of countries in the world.

Nobby wrote:
Why would anyone come here to our collapsing health service when they can get better treatment elsewhere?

Which countries could they get better treatment from?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:33 - 14 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
I'm just making the point that health tourism isn't likely to be the cause. Why would anyone come here to our collapsing health service when they can get better treatment elsewhere?


A programme a while back on the very subject showed a Nigerian woman who was pregnant in America with no insurance so they wouldn't treat her as she couldn't pay. She flew from the states to UK, was admitted to hospital and racked up over £60 grand in hospital costs. The person in charge of getting that money back admitted on camera that there was absolutly no chance of recovering the money so it does happen.

How prevalent it is? I don't know but it isn't going to be people from other Euro countries where we have agreements as Nobby says, it's countries like India, Nigeria and so on where they have little health care who are going to come over.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:33 - 14 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
I'm just making the point that health tourism isn't likely to be the cause. Why would anyone come here to our collapsing health service when they can get better treatment elsewhere?


Who said tens of thousands of immigrants per year are coming here just for health tourism? That's just one of the perks they get that our own citizens struggle to get. Or is grrr666 lying? Are you going to tell him that? Or are you going to say it's just a local problem where he is? Who do you think will believe you if you claim that? Or perhaps it's a local problem repeated everywhere Laughing
I mean, if immigrants didn't get health issues looked after when they arrived, you'd be one of the first to complain, wouldn't you? Think of their human rights! But tens of thousands of new arrivals every year isn't going to make any difference Laughing
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:38 - 14 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:


Interesting, so what percentage of NHS funding is taken up with such cases?

Perhaps if we weren't all so cavalier with our own health choices and not eating bad food and sitting around watching TV that might save more money.


It doesn't matter what the percentages are. It's costs that shouldn't be on the NHS in my view.

From your statement above I surmise you would rather the NHS not treat people who are fat, drink, smoke, watch TV or eat McDonalds than people wanting breast enlargements of gender reassignment?
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A100man
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Joined: 19 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 14:01 - 14 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
Ribenapigeon wrote:


Interesting, so what percentage of NHS funding is taken up with such cases?

Perhaps if we weren't all so cavalier with our own health choices and not eating bad food and sitting around watching TV that might save more money.


It doesn't matter what the percentages are. It's costs that shouldn't be on the NHS in my view.

From your statement above I surmise you would rather the NHS not treat people who are fat, drink, smoke, watch TV or eat McDonalds than people wanting breast enlargements of gender reassignment?


I believe Mr Pigeon lumped them all in together, rightly or wrongly.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 14:15 - 14 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
? Or are you going to say it's just a local problem where he is?

To be fair, Nobby and I aren't that far apart geographically speaking but the population density is way greater here
near Bristols centre than it is in his neck of the woods, I'd argue that there are also a far greater number of folk not
originally from these shores. I wasn't trying to point a finger in any particular direction with my post except maybe
at the NHS itself. There are many ways they could save money, and many things they waste money on. Management
roles seem to come with inflated salaries and almost no accountability, that's my gripe with them.

Then, because I'm white, male, solvent and not on benefits thus paying for my prescriptions once in a blue moon
when I need some kind of medication and have actually managed to be seen. It would appear I'm at the bottom of
the list, beneath those who abuse the Health service, the vanity patients who want things like smaller boobs or to
attempt and have children which nature, their biology or sometimes simply leaving it too late for career reasons
have almost no chance of unassisted conception, the people flying in from god knows where with existing ailments
and going to the top of the queue for treatment. The cousinfvckers who know full well they will have iffy kids but do
it anyway because its a ticket to lifelong benefits, victim status, extensions to their houses for free and a brand new
car through Motability while someone else, idiots like me who have always paid in have to foot the bill. Those poor
disabled kids often don't have much of a life and are just seen as meal tickets. Back home, where there isn't free money
on tap, they would just disappear or suffer an unfortunate accident or terrible neglect, if they were born at all.
These aren't the entirety of things that stretch the NHS budget, nor are any of them solely responsible. But they are
examples of some of the things clogging up the system and burning through money at a rate of knots.

The point I'm trying to make is that like so many things, if you know all the angles, buzz words and tick the right boxes
you'll get service way beyond what you've contributed towards. It's the people who have been paying in their entire
working life that seem to get the worst treatment if they can access treatment at all. I haven't had a prescription for years
the last time I did, It was after a surgical procedure, but even then it was a procedure I had to get into motion with a private
diagnosis, one which I may have to repeat soon which I'm looking forward to about as much as a scalpel up the arse.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:23 - 14 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Two possible reforms that immediately spring to mind:

Management pay to be performance related.
Sack all diversity officers.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 15:23 - 14 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
Two possible reforms that immediately spring to mind:

Management pay to be performance related.


All civil service pay has an element of performance pay and if you are in the bottom 5% performers you get no pay rise even you have done everything required of your role.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:40 - 14 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
Two possible reforms that immediately spring to mind:

Management pay to be performance related.


All civil service pay has an element of performance pay and if you are in the bottom 5% performers you get no pay rise even you have done everything required of your role.


Then clearly the standards required need to be looked at, since they're obviously far too low.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 19:17 - 14 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:


It doesn't matter what the percentages are. It's costs that shouldn't be on the NHS in my view.

From your statement above I surmise you would rather the NHS not treat people who are fat, drink, smoke, watch TV or eat McDonalds than people wanting breast enlargements of gender reassignment?


Jezuss cant we make a joke now and again.

Mind you gr666 did hammer the qtip into his own ear and it is the well known wisdom oft ignored that you're not meant to insert a cotton bud into the ear canal.
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 20:35 - 14 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
curiously, i had a text from my Drs surgery recently saying that they are not taking on any new patients for the next 6 months as they are inundated.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 20:52 - 14 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
to v or not to v wrote:
curiously, i had a text from my Drs surgery recently saying that they are not taking on any new patients for the next 6 months as they are inundated.


Ours still are but you can't get to see a doctor. If you are lucky you get a nurse pratitioner.

They get paid by the number on their books don't they?
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