who knows about paint?

[A100man]

Back in the day I recall people talking about cellulose and 2k/ 2pack paints.

I always though that cellulose was solvent based thinned with acetone (came also in rattle cans e.g. Holts 'duplicolour')

2k (isocyanate) is the two part hardener plus colour/lacquer.

I also thought that only 2K was petrol resistant, but then some OEM paint which I thought was cellulose must also have been petrol resistant on my Grandad's austin 1100 for example

Today we also have paints variously called 'Enamel' or 'Acrylic Enamel' in rattle cans these are solvent based but as I understand it water base versions are used in the car industry too. Then we also have 2K 'non-isocynate' cans that don't have a hardener and I wondered if these are fuel resistant? Although I think these are only available as flat (non-metallic) shades.

VHT paint is also tricky. Most are high enough to withstand exhaust temperatures of course but do they have other properties such as being oil/petrol resistant? and then you can also buy brake caliper paint.. which one would hope is brake fluid proof, but what else can it do?

To be honest I am rather confused, not helped by the fact that words such as 'Enamel' are used indiscriminately by various suppliers to mean different things.

Does anyone know of a guide or table that indicates the properties vs chemistry of automotive (spray) paints?
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Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600

[WD Forte]

I was off school with a runny bottom the day they did chemistry so cant really help much but
wasnt Cellulose the thinner for yer typical car paint?
Acetone as I recall from boat work was used for thinning and clean up when using fibre glass/GRP stuff.
and smelt of pear drops but would probly thin paint too.
oil based paint used turps or white spirit
thas about all I know really
If I cant put it on with a 4" brush like a real man I aint interested
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bikers smell of wee

[A100man]

[stinkwheel]

I don't know a lot about it. I do know a lot of people are obsessed with 2k paint and that it does give a lovely finish but I also know it gives off some pretty nasty fumes and you should really only use it with a respirator.

For what it's worth, I've done most of my recent painting with one you didn't really mention which is a type of enamel called alkyd resin which is what they used to paint vehicles with in the 50s and 60s. It's very forgiving and is reasonably fuel proof when it's properly gone off (which takes a while, several days to fully cure but dry in a few hours). It's now mostly used on agricultural machinery, machine tools and boats. I've used both tractol and epiphane brands which are high quality. It sprays reasonably well when properly thinned and gives an acceptable brush finish too.

VHT paint is reasonably fuel proof once it's been properly heat cured. Not at all fuel proof before that. The simonize stuff goes on well. Plastikote BBQ paint is also very forgiving if you want a satin black.

I did the fairing on my VFR with epiphanes silver yacht enamel.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AMWts8CHOQ-_kkCLwfNBLoRe9WH8QkYsGuzeLLUFb4bRq3-zK6qCN8R8E79l001PbcKVyFYwsfzmUolDdzBIM3U65cLGSPBKTNkiiz21w272qPmwWf3MZSA0Ef4oaEuVa6zs43Tp6YAe_ppk44zc6S3B15rS=w1547-h870-s-no

I did my trials bike with massey ferguson grey tractol and a brush.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AMWts8Df_TQNc6yd2yb7pFbBy30KfUkWGYF-ir1XH5ejB9G9-IEYBYUM4EB6MTkYcKM2C1xbr-asMySsgZPDIISJyZaQHvQyq2OTcZvaede4ZibnyNjJN7QMYNz0sWzz8EbIT7iAQxczg0EurDJfxd_DyZ0G=w1547-h870-s-no
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[WD Forte]

Oh Alkyd, yeah that stuff
top of me head, It's a polyester resin modified by the addition of fatty acids and other components. Alkyds are derived from polyols and organic acids including dicarboxylic acids or carboxylic acid anhydride and triglyceride oils.

I spose you could look it up on say wikipedia but I didnt need to
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bikers smell of wee

[stinkwheel]

I suppose the thing to take from it is if it's any sort of resin, it actually cures rather than dries. It alters its chemical structure at a molecular level to make a solid. As such it will tend to be pretty robust once it's cured.

2k paint does it by reacting the paint with a hardener. The VHT paints do a similar thing but heat causes the chemical reaction. The aklkyd resins do it over time exposed to air.

This will be why they tend to be pretty fuel resistant once cured. It doesn't soften with a solvent because it's not the same chemical that was put on there.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[jeffyjeff]

I once painted the front left fairing on my 2000 VFR using Color Rite 3 stage motorcycle paint; base coat, color coat, clear coat. I did it in my garage, but I was very meticulous about following directions to the letter; wet-sanding, tack cloth, and polishing compound. The finished job came out darn near perfectly. Even in direct sunlight, you could not discern a single flaw in the painted fairing. But...under the florescent light in my garage, the painted fairing took on a sickly green hue; like a whole different shade of yellow. It looked like crap.

I called Color Rite. They said the OE Honda paint formulation was proprietary, and unless and until Honda released the recipe, the paint color that I applied to my bike was as close as they would be able to get to the OE color.

To this day, I avoid metallic colors, if I can.
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History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men - BOC

[stinkwheel]

Apparently the multi-coat candy red that VFR is painted is pretty much un-reproduceable, even if you use the honda paint. Which is why I didn't try.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[dave001]

[dave001]

[jeffyjeff]

Yes, it was metallic yellow, Honda color code Y124P. The Color Rite paint came in rattle cans, and the kit contained all three components. I tried several different combinations of base coat and color coat, but that did not seem to have much of an effect. Ultimately, I found a used OE fairing in very good condition for less than the price of the Color Rite paint kit, and I fitted that.

Here is a link to a posting that I made at the time that has some detail and pictures, for anyone interested.

https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/forums/topic/84905-rattle-can-paint-job-queston/
____________________
History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men - BOC

[dave001]

[stinkwheel]

You straight-up can't colour match older Japanese motorcycle candy paint finishes, it's impossible. They are multi-coat finishes with various tints and metallics in them and unless you can replicate that with each coat at the correct thickness, it'll land up a slightly different colour, even if you use OEM paint. You can get close but you can't get it exact.

The original finish on my VFR was a 5 coat finish and I believe Kawasakis candy colours they used to do the Z-series had up to 12 coats (all different).

The only way to match it is to use pre-painted parts from the same run or respray the whole bike.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[MCN]

2pack is best avoided.
There's a bit of phaphery involved in mixing a d once mixed there a time limit to get it on.
It will set in the pot.

The bonus of 2pack is that it work quite well in humid atmospheres.

All automotive paints are fumey. So proper filters are required.

The other stuff is down to research it all.

Too much stuff to describe here.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[Honda434]