£effective Ultrasonic vs ChemDip or equivalent

[dn38416]

OK let's see if there's a nice answer to this or if I just need some home truths: Got some leaking V4 carbs and some slightly less leaky replacements. So taking the latter i'm planning on splitting, replacing all the o-rings and giving them a bloody good clean.

Now I was planning on doing all of this with a few basic tools and some carb cleaner as has worked in the past. But on first inspection the level of gunk in these bad boys is quite high, both the jellified stuff and the white powdery corrosion. That makes me think it's going to be in all of the passages too. Professional job to split and ultrasonically clean is over £300. Mail order with me splitting them is going to be close to £100 with the additional problem of increasing risk that I can't remember how they fit back with the linkages.

Bonus problem is that due September I need to move into a smaller hole that befits my socio-economic standing, which means 1 bike and minimal tools, so I need to sell this one by then. I don't have an ultrasonic cleaner or air line.

Realistically how much do I need to pony up to get an ultrasonic cleaner that will do the job? There's lots out there but I can't really tell what the specs mean in practice. I'm assuming no residual value.

Or will a chemical alternative like Chem Dip do an OK job of getting the gum out of the passages?

[to v or not to v]

interesting video guide here on ultra sonic carb cleaning-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNggDLT068Y&t=202s
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current bike Yamaha Thunderace.
Moto Guzzi V7.

[stinkwheel]

If you're going to split a V4 carb bank (I assume it's a VFR of some sort?) you NEED the manufacturers workshop manual to give you the order of operation for dismantling and reassembly. They are outrageously complicated in that respect and it all needs to be done in the right order.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AIL4fc9E4c5-DG-Tv34c46BzAEr1xNfv7SQdPFJqgEufLSISgyIRM_tDwlDA9x2EzatlHdJrPdgEbVKl-e-LAmzeSu_0ySeMHGAuwxxAZ3BfkhohsamPfMxA9imBr3LJ2PR_WEoVhHxi-0pfxn7-0ESo5pgc=w1547-h870-s-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AIL4fc_HxdKE6QqBNwtjkhAXDIcT3ojK6CuXWxIfk1uJLYlavCVOpP1gesKID5yLvux1wVDAVPxo7hxVqA7oqns4aSU-2IcN0Tnmlbivv5nqXQnqsJ7rme_udiRNOfYoovfvWxg4KOeXGkmSJMTkkWSwPmmf=w1547-h870-s-no

I wouldn't say an ultrasonic is absolutely necessary, you can achieve a lot with just normal cleaners and some time. I'd start with a brush over with paraffin to get the loose off, then a good clean in hot soapy water with a soft brush and a rinse (amazing what that achieves). Then clean the stubborn stuff off with WD40 and a brush and follow up with carb cleaner.

Don't be afraid to take the nozzle off the carb cleaner and use the end of the can directly into drillings.

I have also in the past used butane lighter refills to blast through ports and jets before I had access to compressed air. It does a good job and they come with a variety of nozzles which will fit in different orifices. Just remember you need to do it in a well ventilated area, beware of the risk of fire and that it will make the thing cold enough to give you a freeze burn if you use a prolonged jet of the stuff.

It is sometimes cheaper and easier to just replace jets which are too far gone.

I have also used acetone to remove varnished on crud. Soaking in acetone for a good half hour then dropping the part into boiling water kind of fluffs up the varnish and you can then remove it with carb cleaner or more acetone. Just be aware it will destroy and plastic or rubber it comes into contact with.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AIL4fc-v9otn5a0oUWt0R8SbxzfgciUGj9chlUZ940UkmZKK7E7FoXlJdqISZQUc6bqaulymHheJDfrhm-zrB3yDYrO-10p-IRLzK_1kx5ZOjQnfdL4zao_jcr7HI993pAAz5kdvpNGuL0LDkv36QP4G3TAu=w489-h870-s-no

Or take all the delicate bits off and give them a run through the dishwasher. Seriously, that works wonders.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[A100man]

I'm a bit confused..

You say they are leaking , but also say they a full of jellified gunk. If so then I guess the bike doesn't run, so where are teh leaks?

Air we talking air leaks or fuel leaks?
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Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600

[dn38416]

Cheers Stinkwheel, much appreciated! Yeah that's right it's a fourth gen VFR. I'm still waiting on new float valves to come through, but have been staring at this for best part of a month trying to figure out if I can do it (finally running back to auntie BCF for this). I'll probs try a combination of your top tips after separation and possible chem dip. Didn't realise how good the factory manual was for this, the Haynes is pretty useless on the detail. The V4 dreams site is great as well obviously.

Looking around last night made me think i'd be looking at at least a few hundred quid for an ultrasonic cleaner with the size and power to fit these. Reviews seem to be mixed at the lower end of the range anyway.

[dn38416]

[Polarbear]

I know it's a lot of money per se but for that job done by a professional carb restorer seems pretty good.

I suppose it depends on your free time scale between now and september. If you have plenty of free time to devote to it then carry on and follow Stinkwheels reccomendation. Just take loads and loads of photos so you have references for when you come to reassemble. PersonallyI've never liked working on carbs as they are full of tiny screws that a ham fisted ships engineer like me strips for fun and a V 4 bank looks so much fun to work on.

If time is tight and money not quite so tight then go with the profesional clean and rebuild especially if that includes overhaul. At least then you are pretty sure everything is going to be OK.

Don't even bother with cheap ultra sonic cleaners. I have a cheap small one which is utter pants. My large one which was off a ship that got scrapped is superb but I know it cost well over a thousand when new. Also you have the cost of ultra sonic fluid which isn't cheap. I've tried the home made recipies to save money but they aren't a patch on te commercial fluid.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[stinkwheel]

Make sure you have JIS screwdrivers too.

The factory manual is odd because it doesn't look like much but if you start at the beginning of the table and do the things in the order it gives you, it all goes back together, there are about 8 things you have to get all jiggled into the correct position as the two halves go back together and very little space to do them in. However, it is all lovely to work on being a 90's honda so everything fits where it's supposed to.

Have a very good look at the choke valves, they can get really sticky, they've given me some problems.

Oh, and do yourself a favour and get a set of new carb rubbers if you can find them, saves a lot of ballache.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[dn38416]

Just for the benefit of the thread, the Chem Dip has been totally useless and barely removes anything. That makes me a bit concerned about any oxidation in the passages that I can't see/scrub. Jury seems out on trying to use citric acid on porous aluminium carbs. I know you mentioned boiling, but if there are still pressed brass parts in the body won't that screw up the fitting?


Anyway in other good news, the disassembly has been pretty easy so far, (hopefully not jinxing the re-assembly ). As Mr.Stinkwheel predicted the only bugger has been the choke plungers. 3 and 4 (right side cylinders) were stuck, so got them out with heat. Got the dremel polishing bit in there and predictably now worrying that I might take out too much. I think the seal is just with the rubber part on the end though rather than the bore itself.

[stinkwheel]

[jeffyjeff]

[MCN]

Soak the MoFo in Gunk.
Or Lather it with Carb Cleaner.

Some Carb Cleaners are better than others.

Avoid stuff that is very Base (caustic) such as dish washer detergents. Caustic Soda and fragrance. Caustic dissolves aluminininiuem.

Wear gloves when using all of the above.
The chemicals strip oil from stuff including skin. Then your skin cracks and nasty stuff gets in.

And you end up with mechanic fingers.

No lassie will let a mechanic anywhere near her phannie with mechanic fingers. Unless she's really pished.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[Easy-X]

MIG wire for small orifices?
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Royal Enfield Continental GT 535, Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[stinkwheel]

[Bikebolt]

uk supermarkets some times has bogof offers on redex fuel system cleaners.

i use this stuff mixing a strong solution with ordinary petrol to soak stripped carbs, totally submerging them and leaving for a few days but removing and re submerging several times.

when its done its stuff carbs and parts come out clean, but flush out all passages with carb cleaner etc..

its best to clean off outside crap first.

red redex goes in like cherryaide, comes out like coke. it can be filtered for reuse, an outside carb cleaner.

just be aware of fire risk.

works for me.

Squirty oil can can be useful.

I like fishing line jet cleaner idea, thanks for that tip.

[stinkwheel]