Bad instructor

[jimster]

My instructor is not very good.
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Current: Yamaha Diversion XJ900
Previous: Yamaha Diversion 600cc, Piaggio Zip 50cc, Honda CG125-W, Siamoto Caddy 50cc moped

[lap_time]

To pass your test you have to do lifesavers EVERYWHERE!

Not sure about the first one - sorry, but on roundabouts you have to do a left lifesaver when entering it (no matter where you're going, as you have to move to the left to get onto a roundabout).

As for the others - double check with him. He's there to be questioned if you don't understand. Make him explain the why's as well - if you don't understand why you're doing a certain action then you will forget to do it.
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One post Gordons - just here to sell.

[T.C]

A lifesaver is always the very last thing you do before you commit to the turn whether it be at a junction or roundabout.

In Reading, every lifesaver you miss is marked down (bear in mind you can only drop 15 minors), but if there is a persistent failure to do lifesavers it will be deemed a dangerous fault and therefore marked as a failure.

The key is to get the balance right. Too many and you will fail, too few and you will also fail.

So, whether it me a junction or a roundabout, the key is

Observation, signal, manoeuvre, LIFESAVER, and then once the junction has been negotiated, get your position, cancel your signal and observation.

Always start and finish with an observation, the middle lifesaver does exactly what it says on the tin, so that middle one before you commit is all important.

Sorry to say your instructor was wrong, and I know Ian the Oxford examiner very well, and he will fail you if you do it as your instructor states.
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It is better to arrive 30 seconds late in this world, than 30 years early in the next

[jimster]

Not good at all
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Current: Yamaha Diversion XJ900
Previous: Yamaha Diversion 600cc, Piaggio Zip 50cc, Honda CG125-W, Siamoto Caddy 50cc moped

[map]

[Gazdaman]

His suggestions seem correct to me.

It's unlikely you'd be penalised for throwing in a few extra lifesavers on your test where you feel appropriate.

The roundabout lifesavers are correct, on my CBT the instructor explained to us why with a big whiteboard, made perfect sense.

And being far enough over should mean you've 'closed the door' on anyone trying to go up there meaning no need for a lifesaver.

It could be worth chucking in a lifesaver when going from a minor road to a major, just in case.

Gaz

[simonthepiema...]

Hi Jiimster

The l;ifesavers you described are exactly what i did for my test in reading and it went fine, every extralife saver you do you arent looking where your going so dont go crazy on them

[DM]

Just out of curiosity, what is a lifesaver?

[Chr!S]

[BigBoss]

I done my training lesson yesterday and when we was doing roundabouts if you want to go stright over lifesaver (right), once past the first exit put your left indicator on do a lifesaver (left) and as your about to turn a lifesaver (right) just incase anybody has tried to come up beside you.
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CBR 400 Tri-Arm

[fuzz]

If you're positioned on the left in the leftmost lane, you do not need to do a lifesaver before you turn, a mirror check is fine. You do have to do a right lifesaver though everytime you turn right.

Do not position yourself on the white centre line when turning right. No part of your motorbike should cross over the line. I received 2 minors for having the mirrors over the line. If the wheels had been on or over the line it would have been 3 minors in that section and test fail.
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https://www.bikepics.com/members/fuzzbcf/
Bikes: '99 NSR125R, '00 SV650S, K1 GSX-R600, '97 CB500, K3 SV1000S, '16 VFR800

[jimster]

I don't think he's good
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Current: Yamaha Diversion XJ900
Previous: Yamaha Diversion 600cc, Piaggio Zip 50cc, Honda CG125-W, Siamoto Caddy 50cc moped

[T.C]

Despite what a lot of people have said, it is quite clear and simple, an observation at the start and finish of each manoeuvre, a lifesaver before you commit, left shoulder for a left turn or pre 12 O' clock right shoulder for all other circumstances.

If you look over your shoulder as you go through the turn the bike will follow your line of eyesight and this can result in you drifting, particularly on roundabouts, but a quick scan into the junction as you approach is fine.

If you get your timing right, it will avoid you getting into Nodding dog syndrome which is also a failure as you are obviously doing too many, and if you are doing too many the examiner will form the opinion that your observations are not effective.

But, what do I know and by all means listen to the others, after all I have only trained about 1,000 people to get through their test with a 97% pass rate
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It is better to arrive 30 seconds late in this world, than 30 years early in the next

[jimster]

I passed my test!
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Current: Yamaha Diversion XJ900
Previous: Yamaha Diversion 600cc, Piaggio Zip 50cc, Honda CG125-W, Siamoto Caddy 50cc moped

[fuzz]

You wont fail a test by doing too many lifesavers (unless you do them constantly maybe) but you only need to do them when they are necessary. If you're unsure if they are necessary in a particular situation, ask yourself why you are doing them.

Changing lane - you are moving across your blind spot and so you need to check. Turning right - there could be someone filtering down the middle. Turning left - if you're positioned corrrectly, no-one can be in your blind spot so a mirror check is all that is needed. If you do a lifesaver here you wont fail your test, but you wont fail either if you dont check either. Pulling away from the kerb - you need a very good check here as you are stationary, so turn right around and look back as far as you can.

The examiner wants to see that you know when to use them, and not just because you've been told you should check when changing position.

With roundabouts, you should not change position in your lane, no matter where you are exiting. On the approach to the roundabout, check over the shoulder/s the danger is in (right if you're in the left lane, both when in the middle etc). After you pass the exit before yours, do a left check and signal, then a quick right check just before you exit.

The other times you should do a lifesaver is when a dual carriageway becomes one lane: Look in advance over your shoulder down the other lane. When speeding up you should check to make sure no-one is overtaking you, and when braking to assess the traffic behind you (although a good mirror check can be substituted.)
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https://www.bikepics.com/members/fuzzbcf/
Bikes: '99 NSR125R, '00 SV650S, K1 GSX-R600, '97 CB500, K3 SV1000S, '16 VFR800

[Biker-Kev]

Why do you think lifesavers are called lifesavers??

possibly because they can save your life??

I think it would be stupid to do as your instructor says, but I am no expert, just a CBT rider with common sence.

Kev
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Zhongyu ZY50, Aprilia SR50, Motorhispania RX50, Aprilia RS125, Honda VFR400 nc24 and my corsa
https://www.bikepics.com/members/bikerkev/
Theory: Passed 8/11/2005 Practical: Passed 13/12/2005 Proud holder of A2 license

[TheShaggyDA]

[T.C]

[paulodd]

Hummm im not too sure what is classed as 'right'. At the end of the day once you have a passed you do what you want when you want. You decide and know when it is best for you to do a life saver and when not to.

I do agree with lap_time tho, do them anywhere and everywhere. Constantly check your mirrors, then they can't say that you didn't do one. Be extra safe than not safe.
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Paul
1999 Yamaha R6
www.coventrybikers.co.uk / www.norfolkriders.co.uk

[Liono]

Just as a point of interest, I got a minor on my test in York for an unecessary lifesaver. Exiting an island I was quite close to the left hand edge of the road and decided, for some unknown reason, to do a lifesaver to my left as I was exiting. After the test the examiner said i got a minor because the only thing there to observe was the verge and that wasn't going to jump out on me!

[Jay1000RR]

If in doubt, do a life saver IMO
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[jimster]

nope
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Current: Yamaha Diversion XJ900
Previous: Yamaha Diversion 600cc, Piaggio Zip 50cc, Honda CG125-W, Siamoto Caddy 50cc moped

[0ni]

[tonyyzf]

Just thought I'd add a wee bit to this post, I realise that you now know that your first instructor was seriously wrong in what he said.

When I was a CBT instructor a few years back I had one girl who wouldn't look over her shoulder before turning, I had to keep telling her over the radio to 'look over your shoulder'

We were coming down a hill in a local town one afternoon about to turn left off the road we were on into a side street, I was about 50 metres behind her when this teenage lad on a bicycle came hurtling past me on the pavement, I could see that he had no intention of stopping and hadn't noticed her indicator, he was riding down the pavement, jumping the kerbs and back up on the other side. I shouted at her to look over her left shoulder which thankfully she did, noticed him and realised that she shouldn't turn. If she had turned into that street without looking she would have had a pillion, pushbike an' all.

Somehow it cured her 'problem' and she went on to pass her test.

You should always look before changing position on the road or making any turn, you don't know where the danger is coming from, you are the only person who has full control of your safety.

DON'T ASSUME FOR ONE MINUTE THAT ANYONE ELSE ACTUALLY CARES ABOUT YOU!

[mchaggis]