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Florida's lack of helmet law - deaths rise 81%

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hugo-a-gogo
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 13 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: 10:00 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Florida's lack of helmet law - deaths rise 81% Reply with quote
https://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/08/09/motorcycle.deaths.ap/index.html

since Florida repealed it's helmet law, motorcycle accident deaths have risen by 81% and related medical costs have more than doubled
(although the actual chances of dying in a given crash changed only by 25% from 30.8 deaths to 38.8 deaths per 1,000 crashes. or put another way, from a 3.08% chance of dying in each crash, to a 3.88% chance. statistics, eh?)

blimey

(stirring the "safety nazi" pot again Wink )
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Last edited by hugo-a-gogo on 10:07 - 11 Aug 2005; edited 1 time in total
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 10:07 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
No brain bucket is cool until you reach 50mph then it's toooo windy.
Who wants tp drive at 50mph everywhere?
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hugo-a-gogo
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PostPosted: 10:08 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:
Who wants tp drive at 50mph everywhere?


'mericans on harleys
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 10:09 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
God darn Very Happy
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yorkshirelad3
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PostPosted: 10:10 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
just goes to prove, we have it right here. Id persoanally like full faced to be manditory, or at least a flip front lid to have to be worn. But then i believe in protecting my nogging as much as possible, front and back!
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 10:17 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
I got my knuckles wrapped on another forum (U.S.-ish) for slagging folks who wish to ride helmetless.
I don't give a toss if they do or don't.
But I wouldn't like to be a an emergency service type shoveling head jelly into bin bags now and again.
And I told them too many ugly folks ride bikes which takes the look off a nice set of wheels if the head is not 'protected'!
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Deano
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PostPosted: 10:33 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
yorkshirelad3 wrote:
just goes to prove, we have it right here. Id persoanally like full faced to be manditory, or at least a flip front lid to have to be worn. But then i believe in protecting my nogging as much as possible, front and back!


I totally agree mate my recent crash which I'm still recovering from 3 months ago. I had 120 stiches on my leftside of my face from where my helmet hit something during the incident and the left side of the helmet cracked and snapped in half.

after this incident I dont think I'll where anything other than the roof or simpson helmets.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



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PostPosted: 10:45 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Re: Florida's lack of helmet law - deaths rise 81% Reply with quote
hugo-a-gogo wrote:

since Florida repealed it's helmet law, motorcycle accident deaths have risen by 81% and related medical costs have more than doubled
(although the actual chances of dying in a given crash changed only by 25% from 30.8 deaths to 38.8 deaths per 1,000 crashes. or put another way, from a 3.08% chance of dying in each crash, to a 3.88% chance. statistics, eh?)


So putting those figures another way, the chances of being killed in an accident are only very slightly increased by four fifths of one percent but the total number of accidents had risen by a massive eighty one percent.

So the question is why? Since the actual fatal accident rate has not increased significantly, just the total number of accidents.

Does not wearing a helmet make you more likley to crash your bike?

Are there a lot more people riding bikes for some reason?

Are car drivers becoming even more useless than usual?

Would a requirement for some on road training before giving a person a full bike licence be a good idea?

Has the latest offering from harley got some sort of (new) problem?

Or my tip for the top, have they been looking harder at the motorcycle accident rate since the reppeal of the helmet law and caused a glitch in their own statistics?
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 11:47 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Re: Florida's lack of helmet law - deaths rise 81% Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
hugo-a-gogo wrote:

since Florida repealed it's helmet law, motorcycle accident deaths have risen by 81% and related medical costs have more than doubled
(although the actual chances of dying in a given crash changed only by 25% from 30.8 deaths to 38.8 deaths per 1,000 crashes. or put another way, from a 3.08% chance of dying in each crash, to a 3.88% chance. statistics, eh?)


So putting those figures another way, the chances of being killed in an accident are only very slightly increased by four fifths of one percent but the total number of accidents had risen by a massive eighty one percent.

So the question is why? Since the actual fatal accident rate has not increased significantly, just the total number of accidents.

Does not wearing a helmet make you more likley to crash your bike?

Are there a lot more people riding bikes for some reason?

Are car drivers becoming even more useless than usual?

Would a requirement for some on road training before giving a person a full bike licence be a good idea?

Has the latest offering from harley got some sort of (new) problem?

Or my tip for the top, have they been looking harder at the motorcycle accident rate since the reppeal of the helmet law and caused a glitch in their own statistics?


Right on! Thumbs Up
So stinkwheel, after you also deftly twiddled the stats to say whatever, are you in favour of wearing a helmet or not?

Their issue in US is 'Freedom'.

My own opinion is, not wearing a hat makes a such a horrible mess in a RTAs. And brain fat could leave the tarmacadam in a dangerous condition for other road users who would like the road they help to pay for 'FREE' of hazards.
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Nath
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PostPosted: 11:52 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
yorkshirelad3 wrote:
Id persoanally like full faced to be manditory, or at least a flip front lid to have to be worn. But then i believe in protecting my noggin as much as possible

Maybe you wouldn't ride without wearing a full-face helmet, but that doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't have the right to choose.


I'm going to piss loads of people off, and reveal that over the past few weeks I've taken to riding in shorts and no doubt when I go touring Spain in September, they will be part of my main riding gear. They're my legs, I'll ride in whatever I want Middle Finger
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nath wrote:
yorkshirelad3 wrote:
Id persoanally like full faced to be manditory, or at least a flip front lid to have to be worn. But then i believe in protecting my noggin as much as possible

Maybe you wouldn't ride without wearing a full-face helmet, but that doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't have the right to choose.


I'm going to piss loads of people off, and reveal that over the past few weeks I've taken to riding in shorts and no doubt when I go touring Spain in September, they will be part of my main riding gear. They're my legs, I'll ride in whatever I want Middle Finger
Thumbs Down

Well I hope if we're ever, god forbid, in an accident together you don't get treatment for having no kneecaps before I get treated for my bruised wrist.

Fuck it! You know what?
I think I'm going to lobby my MP for our hospitals to favour those wearing protection over those who 'freely' choose not to.

You don't give a fuck so I don't give a fuck.
Bet your pissed off now..
Fair?
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Nath
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PostPosted: 12:05 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:
You don't give a fuck so I don't give a fuck.
Bet your pissed off now..
Fair?

Erm, why would I care what some random person on an internet forum thinks of me? Confused

Think the suggest that hospitals prioritise people who come off bikes depending on what protection they're wearing is pretty laughable, since that basically mean whoever can afford the most expensive armour-laden leathers gets treated first Rolling Eyes However even if this was the case I'd still ride wearing whatever I want, which would perhaps sometimes not include a helmet were they not mandatory.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 12:09 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Got you! Hey hey.
And I'm not random I'm anonymous.
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Liono
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PostPosted: 13:12 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:
I think I'm going to lobby my MP for our hospitals to favour those wearing protection over those who 'freely' choose not to.


Ok, you are out riding in full protective kit and are knocked off and seriously injured. I am walking along the pavement when I am knocked over by a running child and graze my knee slightly. Should my knee be treated over your life threatening injuries simply because you chose to ride a bike?
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phantomtek
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Joined: 20 May 2005
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PostPosted: 13:14 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nath wrote:
yorkshirelad3 wrote:
Id persoanally like full faced to be manditory, or at least a flip front lid to have to be worn. But then i believe in protecting my noggin as much as possible

Maybe you wouldn't ride without wearing a full-face helmet, but that doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't have the right to choose.


I'm going to piss loads of people off, and reveal that over the past few weeks I've taken to riding in shorts and no doubt when I go touring Spain in September, they will be part of my main riding gear. They're my legs, I'll ride in whatever I want Middle Finger


To be honest, I like wearing a lid and armour, but I respect that some people maybe don't. I don't think that riding in shorts is such a bad thing, cept maybe get abit chilly. Aslong as you ride safely it shouldn't matter. Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
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veeeffarr
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PostPosted: 13:20 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Liono wrote:
Walloper wrote:
I think I'm going to lobby my MP for our hospitals to favour those wearing protection over those who 'freely' choose not to.


Ok, you are out riding in full protective kit and are knocked off and seriously injured. I am walking along the pavement when I am knocked over by a running child and graze my knee slightly. Should my knee be treated over your life threatening injuries simply because you chose to ride a bike?


If you went to hospital over a grazed knee you should be shot anyway.
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Wave2k
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PostPosted: 13:31 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
you could smack your head and be a spastic, it which case i would rather be dead anyway
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:31 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Re: Florida's lack of helmet law - deaths rise 81% Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:


Right on! Thumbs Up
So stinkwheel, after you also deftly twiddled the stats to say whatever, are you in favour of wearing a helmet or not?


I have had enough dealings with drug company sales reps to know a good line in numerical bullshit when I see it and am perfectly capable of spinning some off myself Wink Upshot is that the stats probably mean nothing at all other than people in Florida are suddenly crashing their bikes a hell of a lot more.

An interesting point is that you don't need a licence at all to ride a bike of up to (I think) 100cc in Florida. I am not sure if this has always been the case or if it is something that started at the same time as the helmet laws were reppealed. There are certainly a hell of a lot of tourists on fairly new looking rental scooters in places like Key West.

In answer to your question. This picture is of me in Florida ready for the road on a Heritage Softail Classic.

https://www.bikechatforums.com/download.php?id=16112
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mchaggis
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PostPosted: 13:37 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Liono wrote:
. Should my knee be treated over your life threatening injuries simply because you chose to ride a bike?


The triage system sorts the whole mess out. You pay your taxes, you earn the right to NHS treatment. No favouritism to anyone.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 13:37 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Re: Florida's lack of helmet law - deaths rise 81% Reply with quote
Hi

hugo-a-gogo wrote:
only by 25% from 30.8 deaths to 38.8 deaths per 1,000 crashes


Mmm, 81% increase in accidents with only a 25% increase in the chance of death in an accident. Seems that they must have had one hell of an increase in the number of accidents, possibly caused by a massive increase in the number of riders (Florida, retirement state, any large bike gang lowered their retirement age Laughing ).

Could be interesting to see the raw data. Looks like the total number they are talking about are probably large enough to be statistically fairly relevant. 933 after the change with a 38.8 per 1000 crashes means 24k crashes in those 2 years, compared to 515 before the change with a 30.8 deaths per 1000 crashes meaning 16k crashes. Basically a 50% increase in the number of crashes.

Wonder if the number of riders has rocketed? If there are new riders is it a lack of experience and skills? Are people having more accidents because they are not wearing helmets (personally find that without a lid you can hear next to nothing at a very low speed)?

Overall my view is that it is their choice to increase the risk to their life. While you can argue about the increased healthcare costs you can extend the same argument for any number of activities (although mountain climbing probably does not apply in Florida).

All the best

Keith
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Andy C
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PostPosted: 13:38 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
the thing if someone said to me it was now choice i would still wear my helmet at all times as it protects your head etc etc but i feel the wind pertection and weather protection is really usefull
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hugo-a-gogo
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PostPosted: 13:52 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Re: Florida's lack of helmet law - deaths rise 81% Reply with quote
hugo-a-gogo wrote:
statistics, eh?


that was my point, kinda

it seems obvious that there would be some increased risk of fatal injury with no lid, but balanced by the riders being less likely to go fast (and maybe having better observation at low speed - at higher speeds a lifesaver would make them lose their oakleys and bandanas)

i see no problem with health insurance companies making exceptions/charging more for riders who want to go nekkid-headed, that would negate the cost argument
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Zoffo
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PostPosted: 13:52 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
I would have thought Harley Davidson would be encouraging their customers to wear helmets. After all, once X generation have all curled their toes up no fooka else is gonna buy them.
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Last edited by Zoffo on 14:18 - 11 Aug 2005; edited 1 time in total
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 14:05 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Liono wrote:
Walloper wrote:
I think I'm going to lobby my MP for our hospitals to favour those wearing protection over those who 'freely' choose not to.


Ok, you are out riding in full protective kit and are knocked off and seriously injured. I am walking along the pavement when I am knocked over by a running child and graze my knee slightly. Should my knee be treated over your life threatening injuries simply because you chose to ride a bike?


You were walking you twit. I mean folks who choose to be 'Free' and ride a motorcycle without adequate protection.
Why does everything have to be explained twice here?

You're maybe not that much of a twit linno, sorry. Smile
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 14:24 - 11 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:
I think I'm going to lobby my MP for our hospitals to favour those wearing protection over those who 'freely' choose not to.


Can just see A&E now, with a load of waiting patients who have been in different road traffic accidents, checking the Euro NCAP rating of the cars they were in to order their treatment, and once those are out of the way dealing with the riders wearing decent protection, then those with some protection and finally those without protection.

All the best

Keith
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