bio ethanol cheap fuel

[it really is that quick]

Just seen that bio-ethanol only has half the normal fuel duty charged, so should be around the 65p/litre mark.

does anyone use it, or know where you can get it?
____________________
not just any short of winnah... But a Sahf East Winnah

i dont look like your average hortifuckingculturist

[Kickstart]

Hi

Half the duty would knock about 25p + vat a litre off the price. Trouble is that the stuff is far more expensive to make, and ethanol has a poor energy content by volume (so you would need to burn more of it). Petrol has around 104,000 BTU for a US gallon, compared to 70,300 BTU for a US gallon of ethanol.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[colin1]

if it has pure energy content how come it is used in drag racing and such ?

In some states in the US, it is sold as an ethanol/petrol mix at petrol pumps and is rumoured to increase performance.

I seem to remember something about higher octane rating or it releases oxygen when burnt so you get more complete burning or something.

i think if you use pure ethanol you need to rejet/ adjust FI but with petrol/ethanol mix you dont.
____________________
colin1 is officially faster than god

[Robby]

Lower energy content but you can burn it faster.

As a basic rule, to travel a mile on ethanol you would need to burn more of if than you would to travel a mile on petrol. To travel that mile on diesel would burn yet less fuel.

[mchaggis]

The biggest, most important difference however, is that bio-fuels are carbon neutral, CO2 ejected into the air burning the fuel was effectively absorbed by the plant in producing the fuel. Petrol, diesel etc are fossil fuels, the carbon of which has been locked up out of the atmosphere for the past 100 million years.

Rudolph Diesel suggested bio-fuels very early on too.

[it really is that quick]

Think drag teams use methanol or nitro-methanol (not sure which)

one of the vauxhall astras ran on it in this years BTTC so someones doing some developement somewhere. havent seen it anywhere on the forecourt though (well not on the South Coast)
____________________
not just any short of winnah... But a Sahf East Winnah

i dont look like your average hortifuckingculturist

[Kickstart]

[colin1]

i vaguely remember 'stoichiometric ratio' from my mech eng degree
i think its the first time i have seen the phrase in 10 years

little did i know then that it wd come in useful in understanding a discussion about alternative fuels on a forum
____________________
colin1 is officially faster than god

[mchaggis]

For anyone wondering, the stoichiometric ratio is the ideal ratio of fuel to air so that it all burns, without any air or fuel left over. That is the most efficient way of producing power from the fuel in an engine.

Most engines run slightly lean so that there aren't as many unburnt hydrocarbons and soot left, even if the fuel and air aren't mixed perfectly. That is best for minimising air pollution, but not ideal for pure performance.

For pure performance, you're trying to use all the air you can cram into the engine to burn as as much fuel as possible as fast as possible. Vomitting vapourised unburnt fuel into the air isn't a big issue for a top fuel racer, they're only going for about ten seconds, so it's not as though they have any trouble carrying enough.
____________________
I must not be a troll...
Mmmm, Guinness
Discovering the delights of Hammerite and a 3/4" brush.

[it really is that quick]

just read the book of words for the GIXXER, it can run on petrol and methanol (5%) blends and petrol and ethanol (10%) blends. the fuel injection must be able to adjust fueling for these, possible with some effect on performance then. what do the great and the good think then?
____________________
not just any short of winnah... But a Sahf East Winnah

i dont look like your average hortifuckingculturist

[Kickstart]

Hi

Probably looses a bit of power. It might be able to adjust the mixture depending on the fuel, but probably only if it has a lambda probe in the exhaust and / or a knock sensor.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[it really is that quick]

"LONDON (Reuters) - Five percent of all motor fuel sold will have to come from renewable sources by 2010, Transport Secretary Alistair Darling said on Thursday."


just found this on BT yahoo no wonder you can't find the stuff they're looking at 20% in five years times.

does also mention that tesco is starting to introduce it though.
____________________
not just any short of winnah... But a Sahf East Winnah

i dont look like your average hortifuckingculturist

[Kickstart]

Hi

Think what they are aiming for is a 5% mix of ethanol with the fuel.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[it really is that quick]

no they're after 5% of total forecourt sales, so will include bio-diesel in that aswell.
____________________
not just any short of winnah... But a Sahf East Winnah

i dont look like your average hortifuckingculturist

[extreme3d]

What i want to know is why is the motor vehicle industry, ministry's, petrol companies (or any organisation to do with road transport) so openly concerned with running out of petrol/oil??

In the aviation industry and armed forces there is next to no concern, almost no research done into alterative power sources and literally millions of gallons of kerosene is burned every day......Lets face it, the average cargo 747 fully laden is not going to get airborn with bio-diesel!

Is oil really running out? If it was, Would companies like airbuss who are just bringing out the new two level passenger jet using good old fashioned gas gusseling turbines just turn a blind eye? I personally doubt it is as even Boeing who claim the 747 will still be flying mainstream in 2050 wouldn't claim that if they thought the huge amounts kerosene wouldn't be around.....

Then there is the military...

..Are we missing something here?

[Kickstart]

[it really is that quick]

oil will run out approx 100 yrs i think. its not the fact it'll run out its what the carbon dioxide is doing to the atmoshere that the governments etc. are worried about.

what they are trying to do is use as much fuel that is carbon neutral as they can.

environmental legislation doesnt really apply to millitary and the engine manufactures are now making jet engines more efficient.
____________________
not just any short of winnah... But a Sahf East Winnah

i dont look like your average hortifuckingculturist

[Chriss]

If they start 'cutting' petrol with this stuff, does it mean my ignition advancer wouldn't really work any more? I've heard you can't use it on poor quality fuel.
____________________
TheShaggyDA: I've got 3 or 4 pairs that predate my wife, so at least 11.5 years old.

[extreme3d]

[Kickstart]

[Kickstart]

[extreme3d]

The thing that 'they' all fail to emphisise is you is that by burning fossil fuels you are not releasing but 're'-releasing CO2. i.e. it was already in the atmosphere those years gone past. Granted the earth was a good deal warmer then, but it was a good deal greener too and supported some nice big flora and forna

My votes on burning the oil as fast as possible and welcome vine-yards in Scotland, long dry hot summers and mild winters with no salt on the roads !!

[colin1]

just because they only know where the next 100yrs worth of oil is, doesnt mean they wont find more after that, and be able to get out oil that they couldnt get at before
____________________
colin1 is officially faster than god

[extreme3d]

Could you run an engine on turpentine?

[Kickstart]