Use or Abuse? -Gear Change without Clutch...

Ted · World Chat Champion Joined: 26 Mar 2006 Karma :

A couple of my mates were telling me that they gear change without using the clutch lever, one of them says it helps to know how in case of an emergency where you might need to change gear fast...

The other one just says he always does it moving up the box because it’s easier (lazy git!)

But are the gearboxes designed to do this, or are you just abusing the bike by doing so?

And do you gear change without clutch?

Basically, would you recommend it, or not recommend it?

Ted · World Chat Champion Joined: 26 Mar 2006 Karma :

Erm... guess I can't use BBcode in the poll option then!

phantomtek · Lil Joe Tek Joined: 20 May 2005 Karma :

If you do it right, it's not abuse. I would probably do it but my bike doesn't allow me to, so I don't.

If you do it wrong then I can imagine it damaging the gearbox over time.

MRX Steve · Could Be A Chat Bot Joined: 02 Mar 2006 Karma :

I never do it on my bike, have seen some pics from when people havnt used them on sports bikes and the transmission was knackered. I dont use the clutch when changing up on my quad but they are designed so they can be used without the clutch without causing to much damage.
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Rob W · World Chat Champion Joined: 09 Nov 2004 Karma :

After my old man's gearbox went on his TL-R it put me off, and he didn't often up-change without the clutch. I've done it a few times, but to be honest it takes a split second with the clutch anyway so I cant really see the point.
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Jack_Cheese · World Chat Champion Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Karma :

accidentally did a clutchless downshift, which went smooth as butter to my total absolute shock. Tried a clutchless upshift, but it wouldn't even leave gear, let alone move into the next. I'll avoid it 'till i need it for wheelies i think...

Jack
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John C · World Chat Champion Joined: 06 May 2005 Karma :

On the ace I set off, get to about 1/2 a second before I want to change and pre-load the lever. Then as soon as I want to change I back of the throttle and it pops up into the next gear much smoother than using the clutch. I use a bit of clutch between 1st and second to smooth it out as it's quite snappy with 145bhp.

I never did it on my nsr though as I could change gear much smoother and just as fast using the clutch.

All depends on the bike and what your trying to achieve. Thumbs Up

jay12329 · Dr. Evil Joined: 02 May 2003 Karma :

Clutchless going up the box, use the clutch when coming down. I also clutch 1-2nd.
Been dong it for 2 years and 14,000miles on one bike with no problems.
J

Cillit-BANG · World Chat Champion Joined: 05 Oct 2005 Karma :

As Jay; clutch 1-2nd to avoid the jerkyness, but always go up the box without the clutch after that. If done properly it doesn't do any harm at all to the gearbox. It can take a few rides to get the feel for it though.

2nd nature now.

Always clutch down though.

FFIW, there are countless topics on this and worth a search.

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

On my old GPZ500s I used to regularly both up and downshift without the clutch. Including a 2 week period where I had no clutch cable and the revs were not exactly perfect every time (especially when crunching it into first while paddling the bike along).

The engine has now done 60k miles and is in my KLE500. It is starting to show signs of wear on the external gearshift mechanism, doesn't hook-up for the downshifts every time.

Haven't had a look at it yet but I bet it is just the end of one of the forks that turns the selector drum rounding over slightly. Should be able to fix it by filing it square again. Failing that, by replacing the fork itself which I don't anticipate being too expensive.

Clutch is also starting to slip. I'm certain this is due to wear because the plates were getting close to the service limit last time I checked them (with was abot 25k miles ago). I'm replacing the plates and springs while I have the oil drained down.
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tony532 · World Chat Champion Joined: 29 May 2004 Karma :

clutchless upshifts are fine.

you dont want to be changing down the gears without using the clutch though.

Dom_ · Points Mean Prizes Joined: 02 Aug 2004 Karma :

I go up and down the box without the clutch. Mainly because i'm lazy and it sounds cool when downshifting. Laughing

NSR Mick · World Chat Champion Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Karma :

edd · Nearly there... Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Karma :

I clutchless upshift all the time, more often than not tbh. I clutchless downshift sometimes and ive never had a gearbox problem on any bike. Most of my mates change clutchless too and also havent had problems. Bikes have dog gearboxes (nearly always) so theres no reason it should be a problem. Rally cars with dog boxes can change gear clutchless. Further to the point, quickshifter systems work on the basis of a clutchless shift, and I'm pretty sure they wouldnt sell if they were in any way abusive to the bike.

As far as technique is concerned if anyone wants to try an upshift, just put some pressure on the gear pedal (it wont move so long as youve got the gas on) then when you want to change, back off the throttle for a fraction of a second. The next gear should just drop in and you can whack the power back on. Clutchless downshifting is harder to get right and if anyone has a better technique please enlighten me. I try to weight the gear pedal down then sharply blip the throttle, thus matching the revs and allowing it to drop in.
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NSR Mick · World Chat Champion Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Karma :

Jamie. · World Chat Champion Joined: 27 Dec 2005 Karma :

If the revvs are high enough you dont need the clutch. Simple as

edd · Nearly there... Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Karma :

NSR Mick · World Chat Champion Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Karma :

h00dwink · World Chat Champion Joined: 04 May 2006 Karma :

don't think this causes a problem. only really do it upshifting. tbh you don't really notice yourself doing it as gear changing becomes 2nd nature after a while.

craigs23 · Mr Muscle Joined: 08 Jun 2005 Karma :

Clutch it when using less than half throttle, or for downchanges, or for first through to second, clutchless otherwise. Never done any harm, swifter, smoother gear changes too.

WavyGravy · Scooby Slapper Joined: 10 Mar 2006 Karma :

Upshifts are fine, i wouldnt do down shifts on a wet surface if the bike was leaning at all
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Jack_Cheese · World Chat Champion Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Karma :

MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

I don't do clutchless downshifts. That is a recipie for a knackered gearbox.

However, I have performed clutchless upshifts since I had my very first bike back in 1999.

I've never had a gearbox issue, and even on a bike such as the Buell which is reputed to have an awful gearbox, it works well.

As a rule I don't clutchless shift from first to second, but when I'm in the mood to go fast I usually clutchless shift up through the rest of the box especially when on motorway sliproads or something where acceleration is important.

I clutchlessly shift the RGV up through the box all the time and it seems to like it! Smile

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Visitor Q · $25 whore Joined: 30 Apr 2004 Karma :

Clutchless up, clutch down.

It doesnt harm the gearbox.

Clutchless down WILL fuck it, unless you wait till very very low revs, and even then its not good.
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stefano · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Karma :

Tried it on the bike a few times, both up and down. Always useful in case you lose the clutch, as I did a few times in a car I used to teach in. The technique I was taught was to have the revs at about 1500 to 1800 rpm and the gears go smoothly in, and he then went on to explain about spindles and other ratchets and I lost interest.
The car was a very worn Audi TT.