Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


A mate of mine claims that:

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> General Bike Chat Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

5v3d3b0
World Chat Champion



Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:10 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: A mate of mine claims that: Reply with quote

Bikes that are carburated have more power with a full tank than with an almost empty tank because of the pressure applied by the petrol causing more to go in.
Sounds like a load of bollocks to me. Anyone agree with him or am I right?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

funmonkee
Super Spammer



Joined: 27 May 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:12 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

carb icing Wink Laughing





...seems to be the answer to everything these days
____________________
**** Don't ride faster than your angel can fly Get this Free Space
The democratically elected Mod of the Scottish Section - The Peoples Choice[b]
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

MaybeGuy
Super Spammer



Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:17 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

its bollocks i reckon...
fuel starvation results in spluttering and misfire. do you get that when your low on fuel? no... only when your empty.

unless on his bike, the nitro powder settles to the bottom of the tank so he gets more power Wink
____________________
Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!! Mr. Green
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

5v3d3b0
World Chat Champion



Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:19 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I guess he means it'd be running slightly richer...But that's impossible cause then how would you fine tune the carb accurately...
I think the reason it feels faster is cause it's brand new petrol which is colder than the one in the tank, hece more dense, more energy per cc...
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

MaybeGuy
Super Spammer



Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:24 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

where does he get this brand new petrol from? Very Happy
____________________
Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!! Mr. Green
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

v8drover
Derestricted Danger



Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:25 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definatly a load of bollx. Big carb'd bikes have fuel pumps cause gravity/vacuum fed would cause fuel starvation.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

wristjob
World Chat Champion



Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:26 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

total balls.
a carb works by air sucking the fuel out of the jets,so as long as the float chamber is full the amount in the tank has nothing to do with it.
if fuel pressure is to high you will either get depending on the system)fuel returned to the tank,pissed out onto the road or just massive overfueling with the loss of power that goes with it.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

gmanxiii
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:27 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it would only start running rich or leaner if theres change in atmospheric pressure. Otherwise the pressure stays the same.

If you have two containers one big one small with exactly the same size put a hole in the bottom. Fill both with water, the flow rate would still be the same regardless of the volume of water.
____________________
I kills hondas

VFR400NC30 > ZZR600 > CBR600FX > CBR1000rr
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

5v3d3b0
World Chat Champion



Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:27 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a 125 we're talking about if it makes any difference. I think the petrol being cold does have some credibility though
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

ZRX61
Victor Meldrew



Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:28 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

v8drover wrote:
Big carb'd bikes have fuel pumps cause gravity/vacuum fed would cause fuel starvation.

WTF? where the hell did you get that idea??? Rolling Eyes
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

MaybeGuy
Super Spammer



Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:28 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Svedebo wrote:
It's a 125 we're talking about if it makes any difference. I think the petrol being cold does have some credibility though


this friend of yours... is it you?

you seem awefully defensive about the whole thing Very Happy
____________________
Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!! Mr. Green
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

v8drover
Derestricted Danger



Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:30 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZRX61 wrote:
v8drover wrote:
Big carb'd bikes have fuel pumps cause gravity/vacuum fed would cause fuel starvation.

WTF? where the hell did you get that idea??? Rolling Eyes


More truth than idea, my 97 cbr6 has a fuel pump!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

MaybeGuy
Super Spammer



Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:33 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

v8drover wrote:

More truth than idea, my 97 cbr6 has a fuel pump!


whereas an early GSXR1100 doesnt. if they want more fuel flow to the carbs, they just use fatter fuel pipes.
____________________
Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!! Mr. Green
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith


Last edited by MaybeGuy on 01:34 - 13 Feb 2008; edited 2 times in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

5v3d3b0
World Chat Champion



Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:33 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a friend who thinks the volume of petrol counts, and it's me who thinks the TEMPERATURE of the petrol counts.
I'm not like those gayboys who can't stand up for their own beliefs. If I would have thought of his idea I would have stated it
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

ZRX61
Victor Meldrew



Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:36 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

v8drover wrote:
More truth than idea, my 97 cbr6 has a fuel pump!

Since when did a 600 become a "big" bike????

& the reason some carbed bikes have fuel pumps is usually because the bottom of the tank is lower than the float bowls...
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

v8drover
Derestricted Danger



Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:37 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsprattuk wrote:
v8drover wrote:

More truth than idea, my 97 cbr6 has a fuel pump!


whereas an early GSXR1100 doesnt. if they want more fuel flow to the carbs, they just use fatter fuel pipes.


fair point.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

v8drover
Derestricted Danger



Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:40 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZRX61 wrote:
v8drover wrote:
More truth than idea, my 97 cbr6 has a fuel pump!

Since when did a 600 become a "big" bike????

& the reason some carbed bikes have fuel pumps is usually because the bottom of the tank is lower than the float bowls...


Think you may find that many people consider a 600 a big bike, manufacturers including. But the everything is comparative, mateys gixxer thou is a small bike compared to a Rocket III.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

ZRX61
Victor Meldrew



Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 02:37 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

v8drover wrote:
Think you may find that many people consider a 600 a big bike, manufacturers including.

That must be why they all list them as "middleweights" then? Wink
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:13 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

The whole point of a float chamber is to make sure that too much fuel doesn't get to the carbs.

The float chamber is basically a regulator which backs up the regulation which is provided by the jet.

So there is no way more fuel could get into the engine just due to gravity pressure. If that were the case, then the engine would run rich and make less power.

As previously said, the speed at which a liquid flows through a hole in a bowl of water doesn't change if the bowl is full or nearly empty anyway.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Jack_Cheese
World Chat Champion



Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:17 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmanxiii wrote:
If you have two containers one big one small with exactly the same size put a hole in the bottom. Fill both with water, the flow rate would still be the same regardless of the volume of water.


Wrong. The deeper a body of fluid is, the higher the pressure at the bottom will be when compared to a shallower body of equal density fluid.

The ammount of fuel in the tank will impact on flow rate to the carb. If you have ever drained a tank, then you will know this. Any change will impact primarily on the float bowl. The float bowl will effectively regulate the fuel flow rate to the jets, provided the fuel flow rate to the bowl is equal to, or higher than, the flow rate from the carb to the engine at any given engine speed.

If the carb is tuned so that the optimum flow rate is achieved on a full tank, then there will be a difference in flow rate to the carb, and consequently the engine when the tank is low. If the carb is tuned so that optimum flow rate is achieved on a low tank (with consequently lower fuel pressure than a full tank) then optimum flow rate will be maintained by the float bowl when there is more fuel in the tank.

The depth of the tank also impacts on this. As stated above, the deeper a body of fluid is, the higher the pressure will be at the bottom. So a taller tank means higher pressure, and faster fuel flow. For the same reason, the height of the tank above the carb will also have an impact, as the fuel lines will also contain the fluid, meaning they should also be factored in when referring to the pressure exerted as a result of the depth.

The temperature will have very little impact on flow rate. If the temperature increases causing more fuel to evaporate, it will simply escape through the breather hole in the tank necessary to prevent a vacuum in the tank, and consequent fuel starvation. Temperature would only become a factor if it impacted the fuel's viscosity, and we're never going to experience temperatures that low. The one exception to this is carb icing. The carb ices up due to the low pressure in the venturi combined with low temperatures causing gaseous water to condense from the air and form ice in the carburettor, restricting air/fuel flow.

Jack
____________________
www.bikepics.com/members/jackcheese <--- NOW FOR SALE! 51 Plate Cagiva Planet 125
Quacker_boy: "Jack, you really are a dick!"
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

gmanxiii
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:23 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jack_Cheese wrote:
Gmanxiii wrote:
If you have two containers one big one small with exactly the same size put a hole in the bottom. Fill both with water, the flow rate would still be the same regardless of the volume of water.


Wrong. The deeper a body of fluid is, the higher the pressure at the bottom will be when compared to a shallower body of equal density fluid.

The ammount of fuel in the tank will impact on flow rate to the carb. If you have ever drained a tank, then you will know this. Any change will impact primarily on the float bowl. The float bowl will effectively regulate the fuel flow rate to the jets, provided the fuel flow rate to the bowl is equal to, or higher than, the flow rate from the carb to the engine at any given engine speed.

If the carb is tuned so that the optimum flow rate is achieved on a full tank, then there will be a difference in flow rate to the carb, and consequently the engine when the tank is low. If the carb is tuned so that optimum flow rate is achieved on a low tank (with consequently lower fuel pressure than a full tank) then optimum flow rate will be maintained by the float bowl when there is more fuel in the tank.

The depth of the tank also impacts on this. As stated above, the deeper a body of fluid is, the higher the pressure will be at the bottom. So a taller tank means higher pressure, and faster fuel flow. For the same reason, the height of the tank above the carb will also have an impact, as the fuel lines will also contain the fluid, meaning they should also be factored in when referring to the pressure exerted as a result of the depth.

The temperature will have very little impact on flow rate. If the temperature increases causing more fuel to evaporate, it will simply escape through the breather hole in the tank necessary to prevent a vacuum in the tank, and consequent fuel starvation. Temperature would only become a factor if it impacted the fuel's viscosity, and we're never going to experience temperatures that low. The one exception to this is carb icing. The carb ices up due to the low pressure in the venturi combined with low temperatures causing gaseous water to condense from the air and form ice in the carburettor, restricting air/fuel flow.

Jack


I stand corrected
____________________
I kills hondas

VFR400NC30 > ZZR600 > CBR600FX > CBR1000rr
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Wafer_Thin_Ham
Super Spammer



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:27 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Svedebo wrote:
It's a 125 we're talking about if it makes any difference. I think the petrol being cold does have some credibility though


Yes, temperature does make a difference to power, but not a great deal to the volume, hence charge coolers on some drag bikes.
____________________
My Flickr
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Jack_Cheese
World Chat Champion



Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:30 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the way, if the ammount of fuel in the tank is affecting his performance, then i suggest he sorts his carb out!
____________________
www.bikepics.com/members/jackcheese <--- NOW FOR SALE! 51 Plate Cagiva Planet 125
Quacker_boy: "Jack, you really are a dick!"
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

benvanwell
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:58 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

The temperature change will affect the density of fuel; lower temperature means more fuel per unit volume. For a fixed flow rate, and assuming all the fuel was burnt effectively then you could experience a slight power gain at lower temperatures.

The same reasoning applies to "justify" filling up at night. You pay for fuel by volume and when it's colder you get more bang for your buck.
____________________
Currently Riding: Triumph Sprint ST 1050
Previous: GSF600s, GS500, BMW F45, CG125
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Walloper
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 12:13 - 13 Feb 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

wristjob wrote:
total balls.
a carb works by air sucking the fuel out of the jets,so as long as the float chamber is full the amount in the tank has nothing to do with it.
if fuel pressure is to high you will either get depending on the system)fuel returned to the tank,pissed out onto the road or just massive overfueling with the loss of power that goes with it.


Do not spread cream over the balls..

A carburettor works by creating a vacuum.
The fuel is PUSHED into that vacuum by atmospheric pressure and or assistance from a fuel pump.
____________________
W-ireless A-rtificial L-ifeform L-imited to O-bservation P-eacekeeping and E-fficient R-epair
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 18 years, 57 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> General Bike Chat All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.11 Sec - Server Load: 0.61 - MySQL Queries: 14 - Page Size: 134.45 Kb