SHOCK LINKAGE OVERHAUL

[stirlinggaz]

Hi all,
currently restoring a 22 yr old vfr.
as its on the original suspension, im intending to overhaul it, but as this is my 1st attempt at suspension, im learning as i go along.
sourced an oe shocker which is in remarkably good condition.
but i forgot about the linkage, doh!
anyway, the bolt going through the bottom of the shocker is rusted solid & im having problems removing it.
this probably means the the rollers/bearings in the linkage will probably be in a similar state.
if i manage to get the linkage off (those bolts are pretty rusty too!)
the bearings are gonna need replaced & im led to beleive these are of the needle type.
the manual shows them being extracted with a special tool & new ones being pressed in with, again a special tool.
anyone any tips as to how i could do this myself (presuming i can actually source the bearings) or will it be a case of taking the linkage off the bike & taking the thing to a bike shop & asking them to do it?
any advice welcome,
cheers,
GAZ

[Kickstart]

Hi

The bolt has probably seized to the steel bush in the linkage. It is the bush that runs in the bearing. As such possible (although unlikely) that the bearings are still fine.

Might well be easiest to take off the shock and linkage and then work on it off the bike. Someone with a press could probably get the bolt out pretty quickly it presented with the linkage. Failing that prepare to spend ages with a vice and various spacers.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[stinkwheel]

The carefull application of large amounts of heat to the effected area is often useful.

If the bearings are definately knackered, just batter them out with something like a socket on an extension bar.

Bearings are cheapest from a bearing factors and usually better quality but don't try to be clever writing down dimensions and suchlike, the guy on the desk on my local bearing factors gives you a lolly if you take the old one in with you.

The old fashioned technique of bearings in the freezer, casting in the oven is often an effective replacement for a bearing pressing tool. That or a bit of big threaded bar with two nuts and washers going up the middle.

Consider fitting grease nipples if there aren't any.

Might be worth comparing the prices of new pins, new sleeves and new bearings to the cost of a good second hand one from a breakers.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[stirlinggaz]

hi,
& thanks for the replies.
tbh, i have no idea as to the state of the bearings in the linkage.
i hadnt even thought about the linkage! but i when it came to swapping the suspension units over, this is when i realised all the bolts are pretty much rusted on, this made me think that the bearings are likely to be past it.(though Keith has me hoping not)
i suppose i wont know till i get the whole lot off the bike.
there lies the problem, as the bottom bolt on the unit is seized, i can safely presume that the others are as well!
i had thought of just sourcing a complete second hand linkage & fitting new bolts but there no guarantee that the replacement linkage will be in any better state internally.
is it a case of just fit it & see?
or is there any way i can tell if the needle bearings are f*cked?
cheers,
GAZ

[Kickstart]

Hi

You should be able to tell once you get it apart. Although too much heat will likely ensure that the bearings are damaged (or at least desperatly in need of tlc).

Entirely possible for just one bolt to be seized. I take it you have got the nut off and the bolt is now just turning but won't slide out.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[stirlinggaz]

[stinkwheel]

You can get a tool called a nut splitter, which does as its name suggests. Not sure if they do them that big though.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Kickstart]

[stirlinggaz]

Hi all,
managed to cut/grind the nut off & the bolt is now turning!
but looks like there no quick way of replacing the shocker.
the bolt that i had problems with is the one that goes through the bottom of the shocker.
the other bolts down there all seem to be ok, ie there not completely seized.
unfortunately it looks like im going to have to remove the exhaust & the linkage!
as this bolt wont pull all the way out, because the bolt is one of those types which has a bit of a "collar" on the head (cant remember the correct term, but its not an ordinary bolt) & when trying to pull this bolt out, it hits off the linkage.
& in order to remove the linkage, im going to have to remove the full exhaust! as access to the linkage bolts is akward to say the least!
if the bottom bolt had been of the normal variety, i could have just removed it, pulled the old shocker out & shoved the new one in & hope that the linkage bearings are ok.
it doesnt look as bad as i 1st thought.(the linkage all moves ok, without any nasty grinding noises) but i guess i wont really know till i get the bloody thing off & if i go to that much hassle, i'd be as well replacing the needle bearings in the linkage!
could i just replace the bolt with one of the normal variety?
as i could cut/grind the head down a bit to get it out (its getting chucked anyway,seeing as i have cut the end off!)
here is a pic of the standard bolt,
cheers,
GAZ
edit-just thinking about it.... it wouldnt do any harm to grind down part of the "collar" on both bolts, this would enable me to slide the old one out & the new one in! would it?
i wouldnt be altering the part of the bolt that the socket attaches to, just the circular collar part.
hope this makes sense-the collar of the bolt would be shaped like a D. after i ground it down.

[Kickstart]

Hi

Having had a linkage bolt snap I would be dubious about putting any old one in there. They have a fair amount of load.

If you unbolt the top shock mout the you migth be able to move things far enough to remove that bolt if the shoulder is just catching. That said it is probably well worth removing the whole linkage and greasing it properly.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[stirlinggaz]

ho.
thanks Keith.i dont fancy that bolt snapping on me!
if i can get the linkage off, i will replace the needle bearings. (hopefully without removing the exhaust) which would be my preferred option.
if i cant get it off, i'll just grind a bit of the bolts collar, which should enable me to fit the replacement shocker.
cheers,
GAZ

[stinkwheel]

You shouldn't have to take the exhaust off.

I presume you have the back wheel out?

I'm struggling slightly with visualising it and I'm not entirely familiar with that model of VFR but you ought to be able to undo enough of the bolts in the linkage to detach it from the swingarm (or possibly detach the dog-bones from the swingarm).

You can then usually jiggle stuff around enough to either get that bolt out or remove all the other bolts and drop the shock out with the linkage still attached.

I certainly know that you can do that on my 750FV. It's the top mount for the shock that is a pain in the arse on my one. You need to dismantle half the bodywork and remove the battery box to get at it.

I have a manual for the VFR750s at home. You didn't say if it was a 750 or a 400 you're working on. If it's a 750, I can have a look at the instructions if you tell me which model you have.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[stirlinggaz]

[stinkwheel]

No main stand?

That makes it a pain in the arse!

Here's what the book says:

[stirlinggaz]

hi,
cheers Stinkwheel.
heres what i've done :
tied the rear end/suspended it from the roof of my shed (taking the weight off the rear wheel as stated in the manual-looks like im reading from same book as you)
but i think the manuals referring to to the oe twin exhaust as mine has the motad single fitted & it certainly is a tight fit down there!
im having problems removing the pivot bolts.
i can get the shock bottom & top bolts out (i've cut the bottom one as i have another).
i presume that if i remove the shocker (by removing whats left of the bottom bolt, the linkage will drop. giving me better access?
havnt got as far as the pinch bolt yet, but will have another go in the morning.
im probably missing something really obvious or aproaching it all wrong!
cheers,
GAZ

[stinkwheel]

Far as I can see, If you have to top shock bolt undone and can detach the two "dog-bone" tie bars from either the linkage or the swingarm itself, you ought to be able to move the linkage independantly of the swingarm.

Probably just a little until the shock is removed but maybe enough to pull that bolt out?

EDIT: Since you have it suspended, would you be able to just remove the swingarm pivot and swing the whole thing out of the way?
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[stirlinggaz]

[Kickstart]

Hi

Generic rear suspension linkage will have a (often cast alloy) link from the frame. The rear shock will bolt to this. Also bolted to this will be a pain of links that go to the swinging arm. These are often the shape of a cartoon bone, hence dog bones.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[stirlinggaz]

[stirlinggaz]

hi all,
finally removed that stubborn bottom suspension bolt.
it took a bit of jiggling about & a few taps with a hammer & punch.
& i had to grind the "collar" of the bolt head, to get it to slide all the way out.
i removed 1 of the inner spacers on the linkage & had a wee peek at the bearings & much to my surprise, they look remarkably new.
so im guessing they have been replaced at some point.
Im also presuming a bit of grease packed in there, will see it alright for a few more miles.
i only have copper grease & a pot of LM stuff, any recomendations as to what type of grease i should use?
(will check the manual & see what mr honda specifies but maybe someone could recomend a decent brand?)
after greasing, its just a matter of swapping shock units over & bolting it all back up (that'll be fun)
next on the agenda is : send the wheels off to be powdercoated & start on the front end (forks)
as this will be another 1st for me, wish me luck & await the usual stupid questions, lol
many thanks for the advice, keep it coming!
cheers,
GAZ

[Kickstart]

[stirlinggaz]