Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Copper base gasket?

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Workshop
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:43 - 31 Jan 2009    Post subject: Copper base gasket? Reply with quote

I can't remember if I asked this before or not.

Any engineering reason* why I shouldn't fit a base gasket cut out of a single piece of copper sheet to an air cooled 2-stroke? (In this case, a Jawa 350 twin)

To avoid argument, let's assume it is the same thickness as the proper fibre one and that I'm going to clag it with blue hylomar anyway.

*Other than the obvious "because it would take ages to cut out", it's halfway done anyway, just needs the holes putting in and annealing.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:53 - 31 Jan 2009    Post subject: Re: Copper base gasket? Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
I can't remember if I asked this before or not.

Any engineering reason* why I shouldn't fit a base gasket cut out of a single piece of copper sheet to an air cooled 2-stroke? (In this case, a Jawa 350 twin)

To avoid argument, let's assume it is the same thickness as the proper fibre one and that I'm going to clag it with blue hylomar anyway.

*Other than the obvious "because it would take ages to cut out", it's halfway done anyway, just needs the holes putting in and annealing.


As long as you seal it correctly with gasket sealant and the thickness is correct I don't see why not.

I have just received my copper head gasket for my RD, and apparently they are reusable etc.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Pete.
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:06 - 31 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

No reason that I can think of. Might do well to anneal it before use, but since it's not holding combustion pressures that might not even be necessary.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

tatters
Exxon Valdez



Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:15 - 31 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would,nt the compression of the copper gasket be different to that of a fiber gasket when the cylinder is bolted down. increasing/decreasing the squish.
____________________
Past:NRG50,AF1125(x2),NSR125RR,ZZR250,CX500,VFR400,KR1S,ZZR600(x2),CB400N,YZF1000(x2),KH125,Z200,FX400R,CBR954RR(x2)GPZ500S,GT550,VFR750F(x2),RD350N,XR650R,CBR600F,CB250,KDX250,YZF750R,CRM250,400EXC,KLR650,TTR600RE,DR350S,R100GSPD,RGV250,VMAX1200,DL650,KZ750 Present:G650XC,C12,CRF450X,1190ADV
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:19 - 31 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

tatters wrote:
Would,nt the compression of the copper gasket be different to that of a fiber gasket when the cylinder is bolted down. increasing/decreasing the squish.


Squish is irrelevant on a base gasket, as long as the thickness of the copper is the same as the thickness of the base gasket I don't think its an issue. I doubt that a paper or fibre gasket would compress much more than an annealed copper one anyway.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:24 - 31 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Would,nt the compression of the copper gasket be different to that of a fiber gasket when the cylinder is bolted down. increasing/decreasing the squish.


Possibly, but given that there was a 1.00mm difference in squish between the two sides on a totally unmolested engine (which was running as well as they ever do), I'll assume the tolerances are wide enough to not only drive a bus through but for it to perform a 3-point turn while it's in there.

Everlasting base gasket it is then. Thumbs Up

Only place it can possibly leaking now is the crank seals (and it shouldn't be because they are new).

I even clagged green permabond on the centre bearing housing mechanical seal and red hermatite on the crankcase halves in a fit of temper. I'll never be able to split it again, but frankly, I don't want to. If it doesn't work this time I'm putting a match in the tank and pushing it off a cliff... Even if I have to put it in the van and drive 40 miles to find a cliff!
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

tatters
Exxon Valdez



Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:13 - 31 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

thats a big difference, currently trying to work out endfloat of 0.05mm on a R100 gearbox bloody nightmare.
____________________
Past:NRG50,AF1125(x2),NSR125RR,ZZR250,CX500,VFR400,KR1S,ZZR600(x2),CB400N,YZF1000(x2),KH125,Z200,FX400R,CBR954RR(x2)GPZ500S,GT550,VFR750F(x2),RD350N,XR650R,CBR600F,CB250,KDX250,YZF750R,CRM250,400EXC,KLR650,TTR600RE,DR350S,R100GSPD,RGV250,VMAX1200,DL650,KZ750 Present:G650XC,C12,CRF450X,1190ADV
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Pete.
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:19 - 31 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have 2 thou endfloat and it's a problem? - or you are trying to achieve 2 thou endfloat?
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

lonner
Spanner Monkey



Joined: 09 Jan 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:06 - 31 Jan 2009    Post subject: Re: Copper base gasket? Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
I can't remember if I asked this before or not.

Any engineering reason* why I shouldn't fit a base gasket cut out of a single piece of copper sheet to an air cooled 2-stroke? (In this case, a Jawa 350 twin)

To avoid argument, let's assume it is the same thickness as the proper fibre one and that I'm going to clag it with blue hylomar anyway.

*Other than the obvious "because it would take ages to cut out", it's halfway done anyway, just needs the holes putting in and annealing.



the only reason oe gasket was fibre is cost.

a copper gasket will be fine as the pressure will be no where near that of a head gasket and there copper for that reason so thumbs up mate i like your style Thumbs Up
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:12 - 31 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woot. Reduced the squish difference by a factor of 4 from standard by lapping the LHS head.

LHS: 2.12mm
RHS: 1.90mm

NB: For anyone reading this who doesn't know much about engines. A difference of 0.22mm in squish between either side of a 2-stroke twin is still absolutely appalling.

A squish band of over 2mm is fecking enormous.

You should not need to use red hermatite to join your crankcases, nor should you have to use it on your cylinder head. You should most definately never use green permabond on any part of your engine at all.

Blue hylomar on the base gasket is acceptable however.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:33 - 31 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I sensing the beard twitching urge to put on a pair of socks and sandals and geek off over two stroke motorcycles?

What bike is this? I assume its the Jawa? Very Happy
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:12 - 31 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
Am I sensing the beard twitching urge to put on a pair of socks and sandals and geek off over two stroke motorcycles?

What bike is this? I assume its the Jawa? Very Happy


What's my user name again? Wink

Yes it's the Jawa.

I currently have two 2-strokes anyway. The Jawa and an H100.

I have also owned in the past a Minsk 125, a Tomos 50, a different Jawa 350, a suzuki T500 and a stage 3 tuned and bored RD375YPVS (in a 350LC chassis). My Dad also has a 1971 Kawasaki S2 triple which I am allowed a shotty of on occasion (although user privilages have been temporarily withdrawn because I scraped a load of chrome off the bottom exhaust last time I was out on it.).

The H100 is by far and away the most entertaining in terms of fun per cc. No 9bhp, 98cc bike should be able to wheelie off the throttle and do 65mph with me on it.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

stevo as b4
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:52 - 31 Jan 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

People find it hard to believe, but as i've said before the H100 is a lightweight tool of choice in the sub 125cc catagory for 1st&2nd gear wheelies without the clutch! Laughing
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 17 years, 10 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Workshop All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.41 Sec - Server Load: 2.22 - MySQL Queries: 14 - Page Size: 83.59 Kb