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Fitting Radiator + Flushing System - Which Antifreeze?

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StevenF
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PostPosted: 17:44 - 18 Jan 2011    Post subject: Fitting Radiator + Flushing System - Which Antifreeze? Reply with quote
Good evening,

So I'm bored and it's poring down with rain, so I'm going to go out to the garage and fit my new radiator to my CBR. Someone mentioned that because I sealed the current hole with RadWeld, that I should flush my system to get rid of any crap; how is this done?

Do I just drain all the fluid, then fill it up with water, start the bike and let it run for 5 minutes, then drain and repeat? Should I do that with the current radiator on or the new one?

Also, do you think I should just fill it with water, or is it still cold enough that I should get some coolant added to it as well?


Thanks,
Steven
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Last edited by StevenF on 19:00 - 25 Jan 2011; edited 1 time in total
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iooi
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PostPosted: 18:16 - 18 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Put a hose pipe up the outlet pipe and turn it on...

That way it will push any crap out as its flowing the wrong way round the system.
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0l0dom0l0
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PostPosted: 19:25 - 18 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Disconnect old radiator, and connect new radiator. Take off the radiator cap, and with the drain bolt out, put a hose into the radiator cap, turn it on and leave it going for a few mins.

Refit drain bolt, and fill with COOLANT, or water and ANTIFREEZE. Its way too cold at the moment for straight water. It will freeze up, and you will crack the block, or f*** your water pump etc

Hope that helps Thumbs Up
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StevenF
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PostPosted: 19:27 - 18 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks guys! Thumbs Up In that case I think I'll leave it till tomorrow. It's too dark to be dragging the hose out etc...
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0l0dom0l0
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PostPosted: 19:29 - 18 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
StevenF wrote:
Thanks guys! Thumbs Up In that case I think I'll leave it till tomorrow. It's too dark to be dragging the hose out etc...


And cold!!!
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StevenF
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PostPosted: 15:47 - 25 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
0l0dom0l0 wrote:
Disconnect old radiator, and connect new radiator. Take off the radiator cap, and with the drain bolt out, put a hose into the radiator cap, turn it on and leave it going for a few mins.

Refit drain bolt, and fill with COOLANT, or water and ANTIFREEZE. Its way too cold at the moment for straight water. It will freeze up, and you will crack the block, or f*** your water pump etc

Hope that helps Thumbs Up


Should I do this while running the bike as well, so the water gets pumped through?
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0l0dom0l0
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 25 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
StevenF wrote:
Should I do this while running the bike as well, so the water gets pumped through?


No defiantly not! You won't have anything cooling it down.

After the coolant has been drained, flushed and refilled and the bike restarted, the coolant will be pumped around. Then take the radiator cap off and top it up.

Just so you know, to reduce the amount of air in the system, refill it with coolant slowly.

If you want to get rid of any remaining coolant/ water that's left in the engine before you refill, just put your mouth over the rad cap (with the drain bolt out) and blow. It will force any water/coolant in the bottom of the engine below the level of the drain bolt out.

Hope that helps.
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P.
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PostPosted: 16:11 - 25 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
i attached the hose to my CBR's top radiator pipe and kept it on half flow.

Turned CBR on and left it running through till it was absolutely pissing out the top of the radiator. Always cold water being passed through. Did it for about 5 mins to get old oil/gunk from blown head gasket out Laughing
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StevenF
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PostPosted: 18:59 - 25 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks again guys. I have fitted the new radiator and everything, now I just need to fill it up with Antifreeze. I was going to go to Halfords just now and get it, is there any specific stuff that I need?

Thanks again.
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Tavares
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PostPosted: 20:07 - 25 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
StevenF wrote:
Thanks again guys. I have fitted the new radiator and everything, now I just need to fill it up with Antifreeze. I was going to go to Halfords just now and get it, is there any specific stuff that I need?

Thanks again.


i can't help with what sort to get but i'm currently looking for some myself. any chance you could post up what sort you get and the price?
Halfords is a little trip from mine and i'd rather not go down there if they haven't got anything suitable.

cheers,
Shaun.
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StevenF
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PostPosted: 20:24 - 25 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tavares wrote:

i can't help with what sort to get but i'm currently looking for some myself. any chance you could post up what sort you get and the price?
Halfords is a little trip from mine and i'd rather not go down there if they haven't got anything suitable.

cheers,
Shaun.


Hi Shaun,

I bought this stuff: https://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_176881_langId_-1_categoryId_229902 As my bike is pre 1998, and bought 5L of deionised water: https://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_165335_langId_-1_categoryId_165629

I'm not sure if the antifreeze is the correct stuff or not though Embarassed
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0l0dom0l0
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PostPosted: 20:39 - 25 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
That stuff should be fine. Its only to prevent the water from freezing.

The stuff I use is ready made motorcycle coolant made by castrol. It comes in 1 litre bottles that cost £5 each. Not really the cheapest way of doing it, but it only needs changing every 2 years or so.

Check the ratio's very carefully though. I would made it so it goes at least as low as -15c. We had -10c here and its never been that low before so give yourself some headroom.

Hope that helps.
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woll
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PostPosted: 22:07 - 25 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm thinking of doing the same when i service my bike, only problem is i don't have a hose. So what would be the best way of doing it? Just keep putting jug fulls of water in?
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 22:11 - 25 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's what i did woll. TBH there wasn't much crud in my system.

Pat
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StevenF
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PostPosted: 22:44 - 25 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Howling Terror wrote:
That's what i did woll. TBH there wasn't much crud in my system.

Pat


Same as mine really, well apart from my fluid which looked like this:

https://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wonderboy_001/IMG_0064.jpg

The way I flushed it was the put everything back together, but keep the drain bolt out, then put the hose into the radiator cap. Although in my mind that's only flushing half the system.

I then did what dom said, and blew down the radiator cap to get rid of the remaining water/fluid.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 23:00 - 25 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
0l0dom0l0 wrote:
That stuff should be fine. Its only to prevent the water from freezing. The stuff I use is ready made motorcycle coolant made by castrol. It comes in 1 litre bottles that cost £5 each. Not really the cheapest way of doing it, but it only needs changing every 2 years or so.

Check the ratio's very carefully though. I would made it so it goes at least as low as -15c. We had -10c here and its never been that low before so give yourself some headroom.

Hope that helps.



Had to pick up on this comment.

It's not just there to stop the water from freezing, it also performs the very important function of acting as a corrosion inhibitor, helping to prevent things like blocked waterways and blown headgaskets; very important on components made of aluminium alloy, they really don't like having plain water running through them.
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StevenF
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PostPosted: 23:11 - 25 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
This isn't going well at all. Well after being advised it should be ok to use, I found this extract from the next:

Quote:
Traditional automotive coolant contains silicates as part of its anti-corrosive additive mix. It appears that silicates (abrasive in nature) damage the Honda water-pump seals. There have been a spate of Honda water-pump failures that typically occur within one year of having replaced the OEM coolant with silicate-based automotive coolant. taken from https://pages.infinit.net/mcrides/engine_tech/engine_coolant.htm


Sad
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0l0dom0l0
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PostPosted: 12:12 - 26 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Shaft wrote:
0l0dom0l0 wrote:
That stuff should be fine. Its only to prevent the water from freezing. The stuff I use is ready made motorcycle coolant made by castrol. It comes in 1 litre bottles that cost £5 each. Not really the cheapest way of doing it, but it only needs changing every 2 years or so.

Check the ratio's very carefully though. I would made it so it goes at least as low as -15c. We had -10c here and its never been that low before so give yourself some headroom.

Hope that helps.



Had to pick up on this comment.

It's not just there to stop the water from freezing, it also performs the very important function of acting as a corrosion inhibitor, helping to prevent things like blocked waterways and blown headgaskets; very important on components made of aluminium alloy, they really don't like having plain water running through them.



Yeah, it does all that as well. I just couldn't be bothered to type it all Very Happy
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0l0dom0l0
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PostPosted: 12:17 - 26 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
StevenF wrote:
This isn't going well at all. Well after being advised it should be ok to use, I found this extract from the next:

Quote:
Traditional automotive coolant contains silicates as part of its anti-corrosive additive mix. It appears that silicates (abrasive in nature) damage the Honda water-pump seals. There have been a spate of Honda water-pump failures that typically occur within one year of having replaced the OEM coolant with silicate-based automotive coolant. taken from https://pages.infinit.net/mcrides/engine_tech/engine_coolant.htm


Sad


Check the back of the bottle. You got the coolant for pre 1998 or whatever so I expect it has been designed with that in mind.

Sounds like that person is a bit to clever for their own good. It really isn't going to matter if you use tap water or de-ionised water for the flushing process. Its when water heats up it deposits limescale. There is no tap water left after you have filled the engine with coolant, or if there is it will be so minimal that it won't make a difference.
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 12:42 - 26 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="0l0dom0l0"]
StevenF wrote:
This isn't going well at all. Well after being advised it should be ok to use, I found this extract from the next:

Quote:
Traditional automotive coolant contains silicates as part of its anti-corrosive additive mix. It appears that silicates (abrasive in nature) damage the Honda water-pump seals. There have been a spate of Honda water-pump failures that typically occur within one year of having replaced the OEM coolant with silicate-based automotive coolant. taken from https://pages.infinit.net/mcrides/engine_tech/engine_coolant.htm


Sad


Get a non silicate based coolant (the new organic acid based ones i.e. Halfrauds pro coolant), flush the old stuff out properly and refill with the new stuff. To flush, pop out the drain screw and stick the hose in the rad filler; you might need to remove your coolant bottle and wash it out if it doesn't get completely empty when you drain the rest of the system. Rinse the coolant bottle either way.

To flush, the tap is fine, it isn't in there to stay and it doesn't get hot whilst in there. Use deionised to make up your coolant but don't waste your cash on deionised water to just to flush it with.
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StevenF
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PostPosted: 12:49 - 26 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
0l0dom0l0 wrote:


Check the back of the bottle. You got the coolant for pre 1998 or whatever so I expect it has been designed with that in mind.

Sounds like that person is a bit to clever for their own good. It really isn't going to matter if you use tap water or de-ionised water for the flushing process. Its when water heats up it deposits limescale. There is no tap water left after you have filled the engine with coolant, or if there is it will be so minimal that it won't make a difference.


It says pre 1998 that's why I got it, but apparently because it's silicate based, it will damage the water pump seal.


Quote:
Get a non silicate based coolant (the new organic acid based ones i.e. Halfrauds pro coolant), flush the old stuff out properly and refill with the new stuff. To flush, pop out the drain screw and stick the hose in the rad filler; you might need to remove your coolant bottle and wash it out if it doesn't get completely empty when you drain the rest of the system. Rinse the coolant bottle either way.

To flush, the tap is fine, it isn't in there to stay and it doesn't get hot whilst in there. Use deionised to make up your coolant but don't waste your cash on deionised water to just to flush it with.


I have already got the stuff I posted and used it, which apparently is the wrong stuff. I think I'll keep it in for a month or so and then do it again when I can be bothered.

I don't know where flushing the system with deionised water came from, I used a hose. I only got the deionised water to mix with the antifreeze.
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0l0dom0l0
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PostPosted: 12:54 - 26 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
StevenF wrote:
0l0dom0l0 wrote:


Check the back of the bottle. You got the coolant for pre 1998 or whatever so I expect it has been designed with that in mind.

Sounds like that person is a bit to clever for their own good. It really isn't going to matter if you use tap water or de-ionised water for the flushing process. Its when water heats up it deposits limescale. There is no tap water left after you have filled the engine with coolant, or if there is it will be so minimal that it won't make a difference.


It says pre 1998 that's why I got it, but apparently because it's silicate based, it will damage the water pump seal.

Quote:
Get a non silicate based coolant (the new organic acid based ones i.e. Halfrauds pro coolant), flush the old stuff out properly and refill with the new stuff. To flush, pop out the drain screw and stick the hose in the rad filler; you might need to remove your coolant bottle and wash it out if it doesn't get completely empty when you drain the rest of the system. Rinse the coolant bottle either way.

To flush, the tap is fine, it isn't in there to stay and it doesn't get hot whilst in there. Use deionised to make up your coolant but don't waste your cash on deionised water to just to flush it with.


I have already got the stuff I posted and used it, which apparently is the wrong stuff. I think I'll keep it in for a month or so and then do it again when I can be bothered.

I don't know where flushing the system with deionised water came from, I used a hose. I only got the deionised water to mix with the antifreeze.



It says in that site you posted, to use de-ionised water to flush, so that's where I got that from lol.

I have never heard of this problem before, do you think its worth ringing you local Honda garage to see if they have heard of the problem?

Last edited by 0l0dom0l0 on 12:55 - 26 Jan 2011; edited 1 time in total
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 12:54 - 26 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
StevenF wrote:
I have already got the stuff I posted and used it, which apparently is the wrong stuff. I think I'll keep it in for a month or so and then do it again when I can be bothered.

I don't know where flushing the system with deionised water came from, I used a hose. I only got the deionised water to mix with the antifreeze.


What does a manual for your bike say you need? Realistically I suspect it will be fine with silicate based corrosion inhibitors, if you are concerned then I'd email a Honda dealer with a few questions.

The deionised bit came from the bottom of the link you posted.
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StevenF
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PostPosted: 12:57 - 26 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ok glad that has cleared up Thumbs Up I'll give my local Honda Dealership a little email to see what they say.

Thanks for the help Smile
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Tavares
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PostPosted: 15:39 - 26 Jan 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just to add this to the mix, my manual states

Honda manual cb600f wrote:
Use only high quality ethylene glycol antifreeze containing corrosion protection inhibitors specifically recommended for use in aluminium engines.

Using coolant with silicate inhibitors may cause premature wear of water pump seals or blockage of radiator passages.


my bike is a 2002 600 hornet which i believe has a very simular engine to yours.
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