Are 929 Fireblades unreliable?

[Chilled76]

Hiya folks,

Been reading a few horror stories on here about problems with reg/rectifiers and alternators on 929's.

Dodgy earths and various other electrical issues....

My question is, are they really that much more unreliable than a comparable age and mileage CBR600? I mean they are built by Honda, i'd expect better build quality than what reading a few threads on here are leading me to believe.

I've found a nice example for the right money and thought I'd just google a bit of research and came across this forum... if I'm honest it has nearly put me off buying the bike...

Any advice/info would be much appreciated, thanks in advance.

Paul

[j.silvs]

Tbh if ere are electrical gremlins all you need to do is find a guy who's amazing at electrics to get it sorted.

Wouldn't let it put you off.

Electrical issues tell me it was a Friday afternoon bike. You might buy a Tuesday morning one

[supZ]

[jjdugen]

929's do have an issue with the wiring loom. A large number of earths are gathered into a block inside the loom, just under the tank. Once these start to verdigris it gives rise to all sorts of wierd electrical faults from instrument clusters going erratic, lights and indicators not working properly to actual miss fires or failure to start.
But, a very easy fix with a good soldering iron and an hour or so unpicking the loom and making the earths good.
My info is that the alternator is fine on the 929, its the 954 onwards that causes problems.
Treat OEM reg/recs as a consumable item, replace with R1 - Fazer 1000 units, much better design (Mosfet current limiter, not current dump).
CCT's don't seem to be much of a problem either, very easy fix if it does start to rattle.
Only downer noted is the early F.I. system is snatchy just coming onto throttle, can make trickling along a bit jerky, not really that bad actually.
A bit more power than the earlier carbed 'blades, but not that much faster, does (finally) have a 17'' front wheel and gigantic discs up front. Bit of a rush job on Hondas part to try to catch up to the R1, which it didn't!
____________________
The CBR900RR has been sold. Aprilia Falco worms its way into my heart.
Try Soi 23 on Amazon for a good read.... Self promotion? Moi?

[Aff]

Don't let it put you off. All of their problems can be avoided or lessened with some preventative maintenance.

Fit a voltage display to warn you when your RR is about to go or your stator starts playing up, this will stop them destroying your loom.

Make sure all of the earths are in good nick too, especially the common earth block (behind the dash, not under the tank).

The CCT rattle can supposedly be fixed with a single M6 bolt, I am yet to test it though. Otherwise just swap it out to an APE MCCT.

The low down fuelling can be completely sorted with a Power Commander.

I love mine, it's a brilliant bike.
____________________
Current Bikes:Honda 929RR Fireblade, Honda CD200 Benly (Project), Stomp Z2 140
Electric Bike Project

[Chilled76]

Thanks for the comments folks.

How easy is it to fix a voltage meter and a power commander?

This is going to be my first bike so I've never worked on one before (done a few jobs on cars though but not much electrical).

I'm now probably going to be yelled at by everyone telling me it is too much bike for a first bike... please don't that's not what I've asked advice about.

[Aff]

[Ariel Badger]

[Chilled76]

Aff, thanks for that. Really appreciate it.

Badger... I know it's not everyone's first choice but it's what I want. If it bites me then that's my problem. I've weighed it up and it's only the reliability I am really bothered about looking into now before a purchase.

It's not ideal for everyone as a first bike but for me it makes sense.

I find the CBR600's a bit small, I also would like to use it to do some big mileages on. I want to track it occasionally too. I've got 14 years experience behind a car wheel and have never had an accident so have pretty good road sense.

I've also raced DH mountain bikes to a very high level and spent a bit of time in the air on a mx bike...

Of all the bikes within a 30 mile radius the best example of various offerings that I can afford is a 929... so no probably not the most normal of choices for a first bike but it is something I feel I can behave sensibly with and warm into with time.

[swampy]

[ThoughtContro...]

Which 'blade was it that Titz had a problem with, where Galvanic corrosion was eating the sump?
____________________
Prize cunt
--
"In a world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - George Orwell

[Doovy]

[The Tot]

Hello, I am here!

The 929 should really have a Ducati sticker on the tank, especially from the Texas Pacific Era! Mine's an RRY so in addition to the issues that have been raised, here's what to check out for.

Fork Bottom Recall

Honda probably employed some retard metallurgist and got their material specification wrong for the fork bottoms making them susceptible to SCC; Stress Corrosion Cracking - I can't be bothered to explain this on the forum, but effectively, chlorides and other ions + stress loading from the shock movement + susceptible material = brittle fork bottoms. If your bike is affected, as mine was, check that the recall was done.

Now the issues I've had on my bike - in order of cost

Bear in mind I used my bike as RAT rider - It's now on 44k miles, clocking 12k miles a year under my ownership!

Cam Position Sensor Fault - £500

A bloody dog to diagnose! It throws up no fault codes and won't allow your engine to spark. Typical symptom of an earth fault, so it took a while for the mechanics to trace this down. Sensor itself was £150, most of it was diagnostic labour! So if your bike is fully charged, but won't spark up and not throwing fault codes, this is a common culprit! Has been known to occur on CBR600's too

: Regulator Rectifier x 3 - £220

2 Reg Recs blew; considering that I also had the alternator rewound/replaced TWICE! The 3rd time, I took sickpups advice and bought an 09 R1 MOSFET reg/rec (shindingen) off ebay. Bypassed the internal charging loom, so my battery is effectively connected to the reg rec and alternator directly - I assumed there was a fault in the loom which I couldn't be bothered to trace down. Problem hasn't recurred in the last 2 years

Rewound Alternator x 2 - £160

So if your charging system, typically your battery, is throwing wobblers, check the rest of your system! So, my battery was showing 14.3-14.7 V at 5k RPM when I ran my regular checks. This is where a volt-meter wired in directly is a wise mod, especially by being able to tell what sort of juice you're showing up when at >4k RPM

Earth Fault - £120

I used my bike every day, including in the snow, so this was more of an inconvenience that left me stranded in Oxfordshire! Allow dat! I just don't have the patience to track down wiring faults, so left this one at Branson's honda

Speedo Fault - £120

I rode to the BCF BBQ with no speedo! Multiple instances of 929 clocks having corrupt EPROM chips leaving your digital display completely blank! Your indicator lights work, but that's all! A known issue, and there's a chap in Kings Lynn that makes a living out of reflashing the EPROM chips - Honda basically tell you to find a replacement clock on ebay if you can, or try scorpio electonics.

Other gripes being that you CANNOT remove your tank! There is no quick disconnect line from the fuel pump. The fuel pump itself does not seal or isolate itself. Swingarm bolts directly to the back end of the crankcase, so bear that in mind when you want to take the bike apart etc.

BUT discounting that, it is probably one of the sweetest handling litre bikes out there! It's a connoisseurs superbike. Chavs went for R1, nutters went for gixxers, and fuddy duddy types went for the ZX-9R.

I treat my 929 like a 600 on roids and the handling is second to none! When the chassis is THAT good, you can make some concessions, like on power. Bike is settled on whatever surface your on. Yes it can get flighty, but rest assured, if you're going THAT fast, you'll be glad you're on a composed 929!

954 is THE blade to get.

FYI, bimetallic corrosion issue was prevalent on 06-07 Fireblades - Honda vehemently refuse to take accountability.

Great bikes, but has its issues. But 929/954 will make you smile more than most because you can use a lot of the bike, a lot of the time.

Quite economical too - 150 to the tank on serious hoons is achievable!

A bit of whoring, but here's my 13 year old Lad - Marco

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/998669_10151756606080712_1784622856_n.jpg
____________________
The Tot 2007 Yamaha R1 4C8 2002 Yamaha FZS1000 Fazer &
www.youtube.com/Titot182 for your bike gear reviews and pop punk covers
Earl Of Easycore Pop Punk Will Never Die!

[thelamoth]

The 929's stator has an inherent design flaw, electrex do a fix but you'll pay for it ...

[The Tot]

I had mine sent to West Coast Windings - Bransons Honda did deal with Electrix, but changed suppliers when they had numerous quality control issues.

Mechanics said it was a prevalent issue found commonly on 929, 954 and certain '04 First Gen CBR1000RR's
____________________
The Tot 2007 Yamaha R1 4C8 2002 Yamaha FZS1000 Fazer &
www.youtube.com/Titot182 for your bike gear reviews and pop punk covers
Earl Of Easycore Pop Punk Will Never Die!

[thelamoth]

The assembly which the stator spins in is typically over engineered..too many magnets..hence stator burn out.

Rewinds don't solve it, hence check electrex =)

Plus a quick spray of acf50 on the main earth and block connectors prevents stupid problems...

[thelamoth]

P.s....you can remove the tank...just siphon it...

[The Tot]

It's a tragic oversight purely because of the amount of overengineering honda have done elsewhere on the bike. It's just a major bugbear to be honest. What i normally do is just put a block of wood under the tank and chock it up, or have it suspended from my garage beams with tie straps. It was a major pain when I didn't have the Torx socket to remove the fuel line when it came to painting the tank.

In all honesty, 954 is the way to go! A much nicer looking bike, 32bit ECU so it's less choppy at lover revs.

When it comes to electrics and electronics, I'm pissing in the wind... Metallurgy, on the other hand is my bread and butter! Bar the SCC issue I eluded to earlier, you're highly unlikely to spot corrosion on the cycle parts and chassis of the bike. I can vouch for that aspect of Honda build quality
____________________
The Tot 2007 Yamaha R1 4C8 2002 Yamaha FZS1000 Fazer &
www.youtube.com/Titot182 for your bike gear reviews and pop punk covers
Earl Of Easycore Pop Punk Will Never Die!

[Chilled76]

Thanks for such a detailed response, really appreciate the advice.

How do I know if it is an RRY? it just says RR on the log book?
Will a Honda Main dealer be able to tell me if this work has been carried out?

Cam Position Sensor Fault - £500

This scares me

Reg/Rec...£220! Is that each or for all three? It's had a new one fairly recently... how long before it goes again?

Rewound Alternator x 2 - £160

Again is that each?

Earth Fault - £120

This sounds common

Speedo Fault - £120

Again a scary prospect for a Jap built "reliable" manufacturer


BUT discounting that, it is probably one of the sweetest handling litre bikes out there! It's a connoisseurs superbike. Chavs went for R1, nutters went for gixxers, and fuddy duddy types went for the ZX-9R.

I treat my 929 like a 600 on roids and the handling is second to none! When the chassis is THAT good, you can make some concessions, like on power. Bike is settled on whatever surface your on. Yes it can get flighty, but rest assured, if you're going THAT fast, you'll be glad you're on a composed 929!
954 is THE blade to get.

I won't be going that fast, it's going to be my first bike and I WILL treat it with EXTREME caution

I can't afford a 954 and there is a two owner from new 18k example of a 929 in the local garage which has got me looking at them. I prefer the size and position to all the 600cc bikes I've sat on. I think I will be able to do 200 mile trips easier on it and ultimatly it will end up on a track on the occasional weekend hence looking at one of these over a VFR.


Quite economical too - 150 to the tank on serious hoons is achievable!

How much juice do they hold?

And I guess you've answered my question, seems they are fairly unreliable.. more so than a CBR600 of similar age and mileage?

[Aff]

[The Tot]

In my case, my bike was an extemely used example. I was putting on 1500 miles a month for 2 years. I got it at 11k miles in 2009. By 2011, it hit 43k! In the last 2 years, I've only done 1300 miles and now lives in a garage.

Most of my issues started at around 30-35K miles. First reg-rec went at 20k, then went again at 38k.

I couldn't afford to have the bike off the road since I needed it for long distance commutes, but I had all the money to let somebody else have a look at it.

If you do less than 8k on it whilst keeping it garaged, then you'll be fine. Mine lived outdoors, uncovered mostly, for 3 years! So, that will explain why my reliabilty has been horrendous!

Juice; it holds 18 litres.

If it's about 30k, get the suspension refreshed to restore its handling! Like i said, brakes and suspension are its stronges points. Brilliant chassis!
____________________
The Tot 2007 Yamaha R1 4C8 2002 Yamaha FZS1000 Fazer &
www.youtube.com/Titot182 for your bike gear reviews and pop punk covers
Earl Of Easycore Pop Punk Will Never Die!

[The Tot]

Forgot to mention that all the listed prices are cumulative totals.. So reg recs are between £60 for the OEM replacement, to £90 for the shindingen R1 jobbie.

Bear in mind in the noughties, there was a raft of legislation changes etc which affected material/cost choices. Rumour has it that the PCB material changed in that time which caused some early niggles and headaches. Hence why it's better to get 954 where most of the issues have beeb ironed out.
____________________
The Tot 2007 Yamaha R1 4C8 2002 Yamaha FZS1000 Fazer &
www.youtube.com/Titot182 for your bike gear reviews and pop punk covers
Earl Of Easycore Pop Punk Will Never Die!

[Chilled76]

Thanks once again.

I've got a photocopy of the v5 from the garage.

It's had 1 former keeper who had it from new in March 2001 then the second owner had it from 2004 until he sold it the garage that is now selling it (I'm presuming he wanted a quick sale).

What do you guys make of this MOT history? To me the really low mileage and gaps between MOT expiry tells me it was probably used more as a track bike than on the road?

Registration mark:
I've deleted this
Make/Model:
HONDA / CBR900RR
Colour:
BLACK
VIN/Chassis No:
Deleted
Approximate date of first use:
01/04/2001
Type of fuel:
Petrol

Date of test:
26/06/2012
Certificate issued (Pass)

Odometer reading:
18,480 Miles
Test number:
227128972114
Test expiry date:
25/06/2013

Full Test History, starting with first recorded vehicle and test results


Registration mark:
deleted
Make/Model:
HONDA / CBR900RR
Colour:
BLACK
VIN/Chassis No:
deleted
Approximate date of first use:
01/04/2001
Type of fuel:
Petrol

Date of test:
05/04/2006
Certificate issued (Pass)

Odometer reading:
16,072 Miles
Test number:
deleted
Test station name:
THE BIKESHOP
Test station number:
63618
Test station telephone number:
01159732862
Test class:
II
Test expiry date:
04/05/2007
No Advisory Notice issued


Date of test:
16/07/2007
Certificate issued (Pass)

Odometer reading:
16,210 Miles
Test number:
383657797199
Test station name:
THE BIKESHOP
Test station number:
63618
Test station telephone number:
01159732862
Test class:
II
Test expiry date:
15/07/2008
No Advisory Notice issued


Date of test:
01/08/2008
Certificate issued (Pass)

Odometer reading:
17,352 Miles
Test number:
582734818291
Test station name:
THE BIKESHOP
Test station number:
63618
Test station telephone number:
01159732862
Test class:
II
Test expiry date:
31/07/2009
Advisory Notice issued

Steering movement slightly 'notchy' (2.2.1b)


Date of test:
21/09/2009
Certificate issued (Pass)

Odometer reading:
17,600 Miles
Test number:
511454969284
Test station name:
STREET MACHINE
Test station number:
62331
Test station telephone number:
01159394477
Test class:
II
Test expiry date:
20/09/2010
No Advisory Notice issued


Date of test:
04/04/2011
Certificate issued (Pass)

Odometer reading:
17,779 Miles
Test number:
136674891469
Test station name:
STREET MACHINE
Test station number:
62331
Test station telephone number:
01159394477
Test class:
II
Test expiry date:
03/04/2012
No Advisory Notice issued


Date of test:
26/06/2012
Certificate issued (Pass)

Odometer reading:
18,480 Miles
Test number:
227128972114
Test station name:
STREET MACHINE
Test station number:
62331
Test station telephone number:
01159394477
Test class:
II
Test expiry date:
25/06/2013
Advisory Notice issued

Front Tyre worn close to the legal limit (4.1.3(ii))

It's only on just shy of 19000 miles now and the front tyre needs replacing. I'm thinking it is the same tyre that was on it in the summer of 2012?

The garage will MOT it if I agree to buy it but they won't do one until they have a buyer so it will always go with a full MOT.

[Aff]

Do you have a link to the bike?
____________________
Current Bikes:Honda 929RR Fireblade, Honda CD200 Benly (Project), Stomp Z2 140
Electric Bike Project

[Chilled76]

No it's not on any websites, they don't seem to advertise online... bit weird... after posting that I nipped out on an off chance....

and...I've just spoken to the previous owner (he still lives at the address on the log book).

Bit weird but once he realised why I'd given him a knock he was cool.. only 5 mins from where I live.

It's never been on the track, genuinely needed a quick sale on a bike he rarely used so sold it to the garage. Has seen 160mph regularly but always warmed up etc properly.

Bit miffed though, he sold it them for £1350... they've got it on for £2500.

I was hoping to get it with a full MOT, 6 months tax and a bit of warranty for £2200

He says the only issue it has that he knows of is it drops a really tiny bit of oil after it's been running, thinks it is coming from a rocker cover. It started happening after he had a head gasket and rocker cover gasket done at 17000 miles in order to do the tappets.

Could this be a sign the head gasket wasn't done right? Or will it likely be the rocker cover not sealed right? I guess if it's been 1500 miles since the head gasket was done it won't be that?