Where to begin with ground up restoration

[Poseidon]

Evening all,

The triumph in my sig is now the top of my list with regards to vehicle priorities (the car now being fully functional and MOT'd for the next year). However there is a couple of issues. Firstly is monies. I haven't the funds to be buying all the shiny new parts I want just yet (new zorsts, hagon rear shock and touring seat). Secondly, it lived outdoors under a HG cover, motionless for 18months after it developed starting issues (in that it doesn't anymore).

When I bought the bike, it was for peanuts, sold as seen, needing repairs. I spent around £100 getting it through an MOT and it ran sweet as for 3 years. There was always lots of little bodges the many previous owners had done to her that steadily unravelled themselves (my favourite being the silicone sealant on the fork dust seals in what I can only presume was an attempt to stop the oil seals leaking), so when the starter motor finally gave up, it was shelved until I had a garage to work on her. I now have a garage and (some) time on my hands.

Where do I begin? She rolls fine, the motor turns if given a push in gear, although I've not bothered going for the full bump start. The brakes are probably knackered, but I have calliper rebuild kits for front and back, so I can sort that easy enough. The throttle cable is jammed almost solid, so will need replacing and everything else hasn't really been checked.

Bearing in mind I won't have the fundage for any major new parts until the new year, should I leave her in her current condition until I can source all the relevant parts I need (I'll be checking the engine out, clearances, new sprag clutch and all that jazz on top of the rattly alternator and kaput starter) and do the whole thing in as short a space of time as possible, or should I start a piece by piece approach?

I want to strip the whole thing down to the frame and get her back to decent condition, checking all the bearings/bushes/seals as I go and I'm worried a little by little approach over 6 months or more will result in a great many parts that I lose track of, or forget where they go. Whereas if I go the whole hog, when funds allow, I can strip down, do an inventory and rebuild in a short enough space of time that I should know where everything came from. The flip side would be that I can strip it down now, do it a little at a time with the limited free time I have and build up a list of parts ready for when money is available.

And as I've never stripped a bike down completely, where do I begin? Once I have a decent set of photos detailing where each part goes, do I just strip it down in a logical order, or is it better to work from front to back etc?

The bike has huge sentimental value for me, so once money is available, I'm not at all worried about it costing me more than it's worth in the long run.

Cheers all

Poseidon
____________________
1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[pompousporcup...]

Fwiw, strip it down slowly. Picture everything and bag it all up and label stuff meticulously. It's very easy to strip a bike down but a lot harder to put it back together not knowing where things go

If you're going to keep it for the foreseeable future, replace the bearings and sort the frame out and get it rolling as a nice clean frame..everything else will come together as and when you can

Just 2p from experience striping and rebuilding cars. Currently have a bike in that situation

[Suntan Sid]

As above, I'd say strip down to component parts.
Presumably there's a manual for it, the much maligned Haynes, would do the job.
No doubt there will be parts that need replacing that will be, infinitely easier, to replace with the bike in bits. Even if you're not going for a repaint, it makes it much easier to clean.
If you're prepared to put the time in, not rushing to get it finished, it will be a very rewarding experience.
Take loads of photos, as you're going along, they will be invaluable, filling in the gaps the manual will leave.
If the wiring's been botched label everything, before you pull it apart, could save hours of head scratching, make a very close inspection of the loom, it's really easy to miss a bit of worn away insulation.

Go for it, you'll enjoy it more than you think!
____________________
"Everybody needs money, that's why they call it money!"

[Ariel Badger]

Do not start to strip it until you have the cash to put it back together. £4K at least. If you strip it now what will you gain? Parts will get lost, your new tyres will develop flats and crack etc.
____________________
Bikers make great organ donors, get 115 on your licence today.

[temeluchus]

Replace all o-rings and gaskets in the carburettors, check the condition of the slides, replace all of the emulsion tubes and the needles.
____________________
Some shite cruiser. Now with guns and FREEDOM!

[Teflon-Mike]

I start knocking one back to the frame.

Parts that come off, get inspected / evaluated and stacked for later attention, or listed for replacement.

Forks and brakes come in for particular scrutiny; if the chromes has gone on the stanchions, whole job could be in question; if the sliders are in a rough shape, and there's any evidence of botchery where seized callipers have been removed or the callipers themselves are a lost cause, then new parts, if obtainable could be prohibitive to the project...

That's my first 'break-point', and 'drilling-down' to establish whether I can make a serviceable business end, may mean that the forks and callipers get stripped and overhauled before I turn attension back to the frame to bolt them to.

Back to the frame, after revealed i all its glory; That gets checked over; sheared screws drilled out; lock-stops hammered straight, built up with weld, that sort of thing; if needed, then painted.

That gives you something to bolt all the other bits to as you tackle them; and sort of suggests an order to it.

So having sorted the front end; I strip and paint the fork-yokes; fit nice new taper-roller bearings to the head-stock, ready t attach the front forks, which I have already 'done' or have framed as a 'job' to be done.

'Cos forks 'on', can slap the front wheel in, even if it's got no tyre or brakes, and prop the whole plot up on the centre stand, as I turn attension to overhauling and attaching the back end, so that it can also be wheeled around, as well as propped up!

Wheels probably get attention at this point; but tyres can wait 'till last. New bearings might get fitted, with new seals, but sorting nigglies like speedo'drives and sorting cush rubbers can be tackled., along with them brakes.

Engine? I tend to leave until almost last. I might do a quick run-up to get some confidence it shouldn't need much attension, but you'll ever know till the jobs jobbed anyway, and pulling a lump out is only eight bolts or so in most cases... no point get all exited about it, and rushing the rest of the job to hear it runing....

Body-Work? way down the list of priorities, as far as I'm concerned; you can live without such nicties as side panels or mudguards entirely, so no point making them all pretty n paint, util you have something that deserves them bolting to it!

One bit that gets attention, early on is the tank. Dealing with post-resussitation niggles; cleaning carbs from the silt dislodged nside a rusty tank, after its pressed back into service, is a ball-ache I can live without; findg the bike in a pool of petrol from a pin-hole, that's erupted after resuscitation, and either handling or preppig for paint, or or or just shaking, sat over an engine thats now runing and making the metal vbrate the rust loose, is a fucktard bastard! Especially f the petrol runs nice new paint applied during resto!

SO.. once I have the rest 'in-hand' and I am past the point of no return, committed to the build; I tackle the tank; back to bare metal on the outside with rotary wires, then lots of water flushes to wash out as much silt and shit as I can to start with; then a vingar soak, followed by a caustic soak; loosen up any more flakey rust and crap; then plain water flush... then an electrolysis 'de-rust', over night on the battery charger.... that, hopefully will burn out any rust pin-hole's that the tank is likely to aquire.. so I flush the electrolyte, and then let the tank 'oak' for a day or so, with water in it, checking the level and looking for drips!

THEN it gets a POR15 treatment, which involves another caustic wash, and an etch pickle, before the lining treatment is applied; that takes a week to cure to 'petrol hard'.. and with the washing and flushing up front, its a job that stretches out over a week or so, 'waiting' for soaks to be ready to change ad stuff.. so needs to be tackled earlier on so it doesn't hold up the end build.

But, with bare tank, treated, logical, to have panels, and mudgards and stuff, to paint when you paint the tank, so, prepping side-panels and the like, is a good gob to do i those waiting periods

Its that sort of 'organisation'.

As to having the cash up-front before tackling the job? Well, the bills get very big, very quick, and there is ALWAYS something needed you don't know about until you start putting it all back together...

And there's LOADS of work to be done, where parts aren't required; usually horrible nadgery ones, and lots and lots of cleaning and sanding and wire brushing....

Even if you start with a big box of bits; you will be dealig with plenty of sub-assemblies like forks or brake calipers, or suspension links, that are either holding up 'the build' while you tackle the sub-assembly, or if you tackle the sub-assembly, that's sat in the shelf waiting for 'the build' to catch up.. and likely a mixture of both...

Bottom line, It ENT going to all happen in a week-end!

But, I like to get 'ahead' on as many sub-assemblies, like brake callipers, or recovered seat, as I can, so that they are sat on the shelf ready when the 'July Offensive' is ready to press ahead and see the build leap forward towards that final 'de-niggling' when you start threading control cables and trying to mate electrical connectors, or are try to get lights to work when they should, and swapping coil connectors over trying to get the motor to fire...

If you are confident the build is viable, or committed to it, before tearing down to the spine; then no reason, particularly this time of year, you cant be getting on with smaller assemblies like that, ready to stack.

But that be your call... ultimately, there's no real right or wrong way about it, just more or less 'efficient' ways about it, and lack of organisation and forethought will lead to as much chaos and confusion in a short build, as a long one...

Best of luck....
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Diggs]

Speak to this man:

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=824782640921802

He runs 885 rebuild courses for £70, and your engine is a sleeved down version. Although I haven't been on one yet I am reliably informed that they are excellent and cover a full strip-down and rebuild including the sprag clutch.

It will be the best £70 you can spend and will save you thousands in the long run...
____________________
Now - Speed Triple, old ratty GS550, GSXR750M
Gone (in order of ownership) - Raleigh Runabout, AP50, KH125, GP125, KH250, CBX550, Z400, CB750FII, 250LC, GS550, ZXR750H1, Guzzi Targa, GSX750F, KH250 x2, Bimota SB6R and counting...

[davebike]

Beeing an old sinical professional mechanic

I want to see it run before I spent time and money on it the early Triumphs are Known for starter clutch failures and a dead one is a total engine strip

Get a charged battery a car one or even the car is good and some jump leads
Start the bike up and see it runs revs and idles
____________________
Dave
NC750Xdct + others at work !
davebike1@gmail.com

[Diggs]

Clive Wood's next course is on 21st November in Lincolnshire and costs £75....
____________________
Now - Speed Triple, old ratty GS550, GSXR750M
Gone (in order of ownership) - Raleigh Runabout, AP50, KH125, GP125, KH250, CBX550, Z400, CB750FII, 250LC, GS550, ZXR750H1, Guzzi Targa, GSX750F, KH250 x2, Bimota SB6R and counting...

[bladeblaster]

Being in the process of several rebuilds, this is how I plan to go about the next one.

First decide what you are trying to achieve, full money no object restoration back to original, basic functional rebuild back to standard, money no object trick it up rebuild, etc etc. Decide if you are going to rebuild the engine, or just tart up the outside.

Then start stripping and cataloging.

Separate parts into categories such as, bin for new, sand blasting, re-plating, powder coating etc.

Start listing the new parts you need at the same time, seals, bushes, bearings, cables, etc etc.

This is a looooong job if done meticulously.

Once you are down to component parts, they you can start getting things back together, my preference is to get a rolling chassis together first. Get everything you need to get the frame, swing arm, forks & wheels assembled. Once you have that, then tackle the engine and get that back in the frame. Once you have that get the bare essentials together to be able to fire the engine up and make sure everything is running as it should. Once you are happy with that you can start on the frilly bits such as body work, pegs, etc etc.

That's how I would do it anyway.

[mudcow007]

Im in the same boat at the moment check out my DT thread

Mine is missing loads of bits, so my plan is to strip the engine down to component to see how much damaged has been done, if i find (much) damage then i will just prob write the whole thing off.

Keep an eye on eBay, you can still get the occasional bargain, also check foreign ebay's too like Germany etc...

[Poseidon]

Diggs, cheers for that info, sounds like it will be worth my while getting onto one of those.

Dave bike... Mine is one of the early silver engined ones, with the access panels for the sprag clutch, so that will ease the burden a little. Bearing in mind I ran this bike as my everyday commuter for nigh on 3 years, I know, love and trust this bike. It will be rebuilt come what may.

Sid, I know there is a workshop manual available for the T300 triumphs. Just need to get my mits on one. Already have the haynes jobby (came with the bike).

Blade, I know what I'm after in terms of rebuilding. I want to rebuild this bike into the machine I want. Not talking concours here, more personalised to my tastes and needs.

Thanks for all the info folks. Great food for thought. Ariel, you raise a good point about the amount of money needed for this sort of thing. I did price up all the replacement/upgrade parts a little while ago (including replacing almost every bearing/seal/bush) and it came to just shy of 1500. Reckon I'll budget for at least double that for the parts I don't even know need replacing yet. It seems the consensus is to take a softly softly approach to the strip down at least. I need some racking at the very least to keep things in some semblance of order.
____________________
1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[stevo as b4]

It has to be if the bike means enough to you and is sentimental to warrant a large spend on it?

No resto is cheap, My KMX125 would have had around £3K spent on it to do a full restoration, and I've since spent around £1k on new parts, finishing stuff off and aftermarket bits etc.

I did not read you thread properly at first and assumed your Trident was an old T160 model instead oops! One of those would definitely be worth restoring, and to a total British bike novice like me, I would in some ways quite like the idea and the challenge of working on something I have no experience or idea about.

A 94 trident to me is less of a worthy resto project, supposing you are wanting to make it cosmetically really nice and not just a good rider?

There's probably a fair few T300 bikes out there still, and some will be A1 Minter's. Buying such a bike or an already restored one will always be cheaper than doing your own bike.

My KMX125 cost well under £2K, but as I said it must have easily had over £3k spent on it to get it looking good, so unless your particular bike is very important to you, then it's something to think about before you start the resto?

[Poseidon]

[Ed Case]

Unless the bike is something ridiculous like a Vincent or an equivalent 'classic' the cost of a thorough restoration is frequently more than the thing's worth. The bloke who buys it off you when you sell is the man who gets real value for money.

[Robby]

Work on one sub-assembly at a time. Start with the ones you're most comfortable with, then tackle the more difficult ones as you build up experience.

I assume your pricing for bearings/bushes/seals was based on Triumph prices. You're not pressed for time and you'll be taking the bits off. That means that for common sized parts, like bearings, you can measure what comes out and buy the bearing from a bearing shop. Same part, fraction of the price. There may also be some cases where the OE fit is a shitty plastic or nylon bush, and you can instead fit a brass one, or even a needle roller bearing with a grease nipple.

Also I think your seized throttle cable is in fact a seizure at the throttle shaft - either on the shaft itself, or the butterflys corroding against the carb body. A good twist should free it off.

Don't go too crazy on it, or you'll never finish. The first thing you'll learn is just quickly you can remove any major component. This means you don't need to restore every bit just because you have it apart. If the frame just needs a new set of head bearings, don't go replacing every bearing and bush in the entire frame and swingarm.

[Poseidon]

Perhaps restoration is too strong a word. Rebuild with customisation is a more accurate description.

Ed, I get what you're saying. I heard once that if you buy a minter bonnie from the 60s, strip it down and sell the component parts, you'll make money. But this bike isn't going to be a show piece. If I bought a pristine trident for £1500-£2000, I'd still want to spend about another grand on top of that doing the bits and bobs I want to do to it, so would be shelling out 3grand-ish. Instead, I'd rather spend that money getting mine into tip-top order, with all the upgrades I want. The bonus being that this particular triumph is the one that has a special place in my heart. She deserves this level of treatment! (and I won't ever sell it! Ever!)
____________________
1977 Honda CG125
2002 Ducati Monster S4 (currently restoring)

[Teflon-Mike]

[Vincent]

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

[quote="Poseidon]this particular triumph is the one that has a special place in my heart. She deserves this level of treatment! (and I won't ever sell it! Ever!)[/quote]

I get this! I now have a garage so my 60,000 mile, '99 ZX6R is having a long-anticipated and mainly cosmetic refurb. I'm trying to avoid the urge to go concours on it, I just want to take a few years off. I could buy a very low mileage, immaculate, road-ready one for less than £1500 but it wouldn't be quite the same.

[Poseidon]

[Ed Case]

[Teflon-Mike]

[Poseidon]