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Sadam Hussain...

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Method
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PostPosted: 12:26 - 27 Dec 2006    Post subject: Sadam Hussain... Reply with quote

Now im not normally one for politics and that, but i saw this story on the news last night about his execution...

I dont know how to feel about this... I mean this person has nothing to do with me on personal level, obviously. I dissagree completely with the whole iraq situation yada yada yada, but that kind of has nothing to do with this court case.

I'd never realy paid much attention to this guy before Iraq came about, i mean i heard his name etc on the news a bit, but i wasnt even born when he carried out these attacks on his own people.

I blame him personally for us having to go to war in Iraq, not Bush or Blair, because if Hussain wasnt there then there wouldnt be a need for the war etc. So for that reason alone i believe he is solely to blame...

But i heard that he is going to be exectued. Ok i thought, that makes sense i suppose in this day and age, and expected some kind of electric chair etc... But then i read on the BBC that he is being sent to the gallows? Now it could just be me, but isnt that a bit old for us now? I know its iraq etc, and it isnt the most advanced country in the world, but surely hanging someone is a bit 16th century? Confused

I dont realy know what to think about the whole mess, i feel kind of releived that he is going to finally come to an end, but then at the same time, i feel a kind of emptyness, knowing that it is all going to be over for him... Knowing that he wont have any worries and nothing he has done will affect him any more - its almost like a releif for him? Where as the innocent families of those that have died because of him will have to live the rest of their lives in pain and misery, without the loved one(s) they spent their life raising...

I was hoping that typing all this would help me come to some kind of decision, or at least clear things up in my own head - but it hasnt Confused

What do any of you lot think? Or do you even care? Maybe someone elses prespective could help clear a few things up for me... I mean i dont pretend to understand everything that is going on with this whole mess. Like i said earlier, i wasnt even born when the "incident" he is on trial for was carried out, so im sure certain aspects are lost on me...

Anyway, sorry for the pointless drivvel.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 13:06 - 27 Dec 2006    Post subject: Re: Sadam Hussain... Reply with quote

Method wrote:
I blame him personally for us having to go to war in Iraq, not Bush or Blair, because if Hussain wasnt there then there wouldnt be a need for the war etc. So for that reason alone i believe he is solely to blame...


We are in US UK pretty much put him into power and supported him against Iran , "pity there can't be two losers I remember in an old book".

Method wrote:

Now it could just be me, but isnt that a bit old for us now? I know its iraq etc, and it isnt the most advanced country in the world, but surely hanging someone is a bit 16th century? Confused


Hanging is the slowest method of execution* , and if they purposely use an incorrect drop it can last 10+ minutes , even if it does break your neck the nerves above the neck can still feel pain , and according to one of my ME friends the heart and brain can function for 10-15 minutes after the break ,

It is considered bad form to use too long a drop that takes the head off , so in British drop hanging the prisoner would be carefully weighed and the rope put slightly longer for the condemned's weight , to break the neck quickly. But as said neck breakage does not mean instant death!.

Being shot blows a huge carrot shaped cavity and cavitates your flesh (cooks it) , killing you quickly , cyanide (gas chamber) causes cellular suffocation in minutes,

a bloke with an axe who is good 8-30 seconds (head lives on though experiements the french did where they picked up the head and gave it a slap had various results).

Method wrote:

I dont realy know what to think about the whole mess, i feel kind of releived that he is going to finally come to an end, but then at the same time, i feel a kind of emptyness, knowing that it is all going to be over for him... Knowing that he wont have any worries and nothing he has done will affect him any more - its almost like a releif for him? Where as the innocent families of those that have died because of him will have to live the rest of their lives in pain and misery, without the loved one(s) they spent their life raising...
.


Kill one dictator make friends with another , what was that country now? , Kurgestan? , where one of our Diplomats was called back after he complained about torture and rendition and massive human rights abuses there. Once they become useless to us or start getting too big for their shoes , we will get rid of them an install new dictators.



*when I say slowest I mean of the main 'modern' (oxymoronic?) execution methods not withstanding medeval execution techniques which could take hours or days.
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Annabella
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PostPosted: 13:07 - 27 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is very difficult for those of us not directly related with the situation to decide what the outcome of his trial should be. I feel that hanging the man is somehow wrong, and yet I try to tell myself that it isn't my decision to make - it is that of his country's and their new system.

The war was intended to help the people of Iraq to become more independent and self-ruling. They have this now, and are using it to punish their former leader.
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Suzuki
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PostPosted: 13:38 - 27 Dec 2006    Post subject: Re: Sadam Hussain... Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
Hanging is the slowest method of execution* , and if they purposely use an incorrect drop it can last 10+ minutes


A recent execution in the US by lethal injection took more than 30 minutes for the condemned to die.

After this terrible failure in 'humane execution', all executions in the state of Texas (and another place I can't remember) have been put on hold.

If done properly, hanging causes instant death.
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Keir
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PostPosted: 13:53 - 27 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

why not shoot him? Surely thats the quickest?
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zaknafien




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PostPosted: 14:14 - 27 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keir_K3 wrote:
why not shoot him? Surely thats the quickest?


Splatter of blood and brain matter on the shooter, main reason the nazi's moved from shooting people in ready dug graves was because of the effect of splatter on the troops doing the shooting.
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bazza
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PostPosted: 16:00 - 27 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stick him in an NHS hospital with a small untreated scratch on his hand. MRSA should do him in a few days...
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Suzuki
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PostPosted: 16:07 - 27 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

zaknafien wrote:
Splatter of blood and brain matter on the shooter, main reason the nazi's moved from shooting people in ready dug graves was because of the effect of splatter on the troops doing the shooting.


Not true. The moved to mass execution using chemicals because it was cheaper. A bullet per death is *VERY* expensive when you're killing millions of people. Especially when you're trying to fight a war at the same time. Bullets are a useful comodity when fighting wars.
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Method
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PostPosted: 16:11 - 27 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suzuki wrote:
Not true. The moved to mass execution using chemicals because it was cheaper. A bullet per death is *VERY* expensive when you're killing millions of people. Especially when you're trying to fight a war at the same time. Bullets are a useful comodity when fighting wars.

However,

They did line people up behind each other and use the one bullet to take out multiple people. I remember this because of one story i was told in history about a man who was killed in this way, sharing the same bullet as the one that killed his son and his brother. Thumbs Down
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Method
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PostPosted: 16:20 - 27 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yokogeri wrote:
I wonder if it will be on TV.

Laughing Doubt it, unless you can receive underground Iraqi TV Channels...?

BBC said the execution date probably wont be annuonced until it has allready been carried out. Thus stopping protestors and all that jazz i suppose. The location aswell is also supposed to be completely secret.

For all we know, it could allready have been done today.

Still - keep checking YouTube Wink
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zaknafien




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PostPosted: 16:40 - 27 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suzuki wrote:
Not true. The moved to mass execution using chemicals because it was cheaper. A bullet per death is *VERY* expensive when you're killing millions of people. Especially when you're trying to fight a war at the same time. Bullets are a useful comodity when fighting wars.


Not true, that was a later consideration. Initially the problem was the effect on the troops as they weren't into high numbers enough to care about cost at the time. The einsatzgruppen had a high attrition rate until the 'weak willed' ones were finally rooted out and all that was left were the sadistic bastards.

By that time though the amount had grown so vast that indeed another way was needed to kill, not to mention the bother of digging and filling the mass graves rather than incineration.
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tokarev
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PostPosted: 19:14 - 27 Dec 2006    Post subject: Re: Sadam Hussain... Reply with quote

Method wrote:
...But then i read on the BBC that he is being sent to the gallows? Now it could just be me, but isnt that a bit old for us now? I know its iraq etc, and it isnt the most advanced country in the world, but surely hanging someone is a bit 16th century? Confused


16th Century?! Mate, hanging was still used in the U.K. right up until 1964! Also, hanging is still used in some states in the U.S.A. aswell as death by gas chamber, firing squad and electrocution. It is not only in third world countries that this happens in.

Also, I thought it might be interesting to read about how exactly death by hanging occurs. It is interesting: https://www.richard.clark32.btinternet.co.uk/hanging2.html#causes
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SimonB
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PostPosted: 21:17 - 27 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he is being hung because the last Nazis were treated in the same way as they were war criminals. They say that a solder should be shot not hung as it is deemed more honorable.

So it will probably piss Saddam off by being hung rather than shot. Well being killed would piss anyone off!

Although I am probably talking bollocks here.
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TheShaggyDA
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PostPosted: 21:50 - 27 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

They could always just stick him back in the hole they found him in, and seal it. With maybe Bush and Blair in there with him Smile
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Silver
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PostPosted: 00:24 - 28 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regardless of what he deserves, I do have the sneaking suspicion that killing him will serve more harm than good. Turn him into a martyr for his supporters in the middle east and give them another reason to fight against us.

Personally I'd stick him in a hole and let the world forget about him.
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h00dwink
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PostPosted: 08:56 - 28 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

whilst i do agree killing him will cause a lot of unrest, it will make an example, not a martyr of him.
regardless of his age, what he has done through out his life warrents this penalty against him.
i imagine it's easy to sit on the fence and proclaim he shouldn't be put to death when what he did had no real effect on you. but imagine how it was for all the people that because of his decisions were killed/tortured.
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colin1
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PostPosted: 17:20 - 28 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok some of his methods of maintaining control in his country were a bit extreme, but at least he maintained control, which is more than the american forces, british forces and puppet government have managed.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 18:54 - 28 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Methods of Execution are a bit fascinating for the more morbid of our species.

Hanging can be quick or slow, as can chemical, gassing and electrocution.
I like beheading. Chopping off the head must be about the quickest. But surely you must get a look at yourself from a different perspective? Kind of like an Super-Saver 'out of body experience' thingy. Unless shock puts your lights out instantly.

I saw something on See-Enn-Enn last week about how the Iraqis have been disposing of naughty buggers lately by hanging.
In one case a guy, found guilty of murder, was hanged in the prison. The rope snapped so he was promptly (35 mins. later) strung up for another go. (I think the 2nd ride is free.)

Capital Punishment is ultimately an orderly exhibition of the Rage of Mankind (Kind?). Vengeance and Hate rolled into one.
Some folk feel better to know the baddie died.

Incarceration is very expensive and open to abuse when thoughtless do-gooders cry out to give condemned men rights.

Hang Saddam.

So, the Brits and the Septics put him there. He should have kept his nose clean then.

I am fed up looking at the prick.

Sooner the better, then we can quickly forget him.
The best punishment will be: Insignificance.

It seems as though Iraq has been thrown back to the middle ages when a neighbour can willfully slaughter the family next door and feel good about it.
We do not all understand middle east emotions. Hanging What's his name will not be any more exiting than the troops liberating Bagdad from the Bath party he led.
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Hooky
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PostPosted: 19:28 - 28 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hot of the news today > Saddam Escapes
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bazza
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PostPosted: 00:45 - 29 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

colin1 wrote:
ok some of his methods of maintaining control in his country were a bit extreme, but at least he maintained control, which is more than the american forces, british forces and puppet government have managed.


At least that nice Mr Hitler got the trains running on time and had all those lovely autobahns built for getting around the country.
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h00dwink
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PostPosted: 11:13 - 29 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

colin1 wrote:
ok some of his methods of maintaining control in his country were a bit extreme, but at least he maintained control, which is more than the american forces, british forces and puppet government have managed.

a bit extreme?
when you're young, and your mum/dad doesn't do something you wanted, and you say you hate them, that's a bit extreme.

what saddam did to maintain control was way past extreme. a modern day hitler would suffice.

our government can be a bit crap with taxing and whatnot, but it's not like you, your family and friends will be tortured and killed if you or someone you know bad mouths new labour.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 12:59 - 29 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

h00dwink wrote:
our government can be a bit crap with taxing and whatnot, but it's not like you, your family and friends will be tortured and killed if you or someone you know bad mouths new labour.


not yet anyway , see that terrorist scum bag Pam Warren? , how dare she survive a train crash?.

Or that journo who was sacked from the BBC , whos name escapes me at the moment , where the government press office said he was suicidal and was depressed , he immediately rebuked this , probably as he would have been found to have conviently suicided in a forrest if he had not rebuked it.

Added to the fact that police have a licence to shoot people without repremand (ie the bloke with the table leg who was shot in the back of the head) , as said they can't not yet anyway....
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 17:03 - 29 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
Added to the fact that police have a licence to shoot people without repremand (ie the bloke with the table leg who was shot in the back of the head) , as said they can't not yet anyway....



That was investigated and the police were found innocent.

It was an incident where firearms were involved.
As I said before. Our police do not want to have to carry and use fire arms as there never is a right time to fire your weapon.
You are trained to shoot to kill.

That gives someone the job of executioner.

Shooting incidents are too complex for brief statements on here.

The guy with the table leg could have been thinking he would have a laugh with the talble leg when the police stopped him. They said armed police. He turned around as he put his arm up, which they believed, with a gun in his hand.
The rule is shoot or be shot.

A split second life or death decision.

I would not want the weight of that on me everyday.

But more to it than that.

Latest slaughter in NY:
Darkness, Confusion, Alcohol, Sex, Firearms, Criminals, Innocents.

What a mix when the Shit hits the Phan.
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colin1
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PostPosted: 19:25 - 29 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

h00dwink wrote:

a bit extreme?
when you're young, and your mum/dad doesn't do something you wanted, and you say you hate them, that's a bit extreme.

what saddam did to maintain control was way past extreme. a modern day hitler would suffice.


The reason his methods were extreme is they had to be to stay in power. He was fighting insurgents backed by foreign powers that were intent on destabilising the country.

The americans destroyed everything, so the insurgents backed by foreign powers took over and have grown from strength to strength ever since.

America threatening to invade Iran, would have made Iran even more keen to keep the chaos going on in Iraq.

However Saddams methods werent extreme as the methods we used against iraq, starving the country with sanctions for years, bombing infrastructure for years, and then completely trashing the country leaving anarchy with hundreds dieing a day.

It makes killing a few thousand kurds look like idleness.
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LUXY DJ
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PostPosted: 03:15 - 30 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=103579
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