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Running (badly) on choke, and stalling without

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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 18:01 - 15 Dec 2008    Post subject: Running (badly) on choke, and stalling without Reply with quote

Hey all, my CBR 600 FT (1996) seems to be dying Crying or Very sad

I've had this rattle for a fortnight or so which hasn't seemed to affect the actual performance.

Now out of the blue the bike died by the end of my road. Sounded like fueling difficulties so I chucked it onto reserve (about 20 miles earlier then normal) and then it still wouldn't run properly.

It would raspily run with the choke fully on, but sounded abit like it was oil seizing (I've checked that and the level is fine*) and wasn't exactly generating power. Soon as the choke went off it would stall within a few seconds.

Can all that be ascribed to loose headers/manifolds? As that's what I'm pretty sure I'm dealing with.
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m0l0t0v
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PostPosted: 18:26 - 15 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had something like that happen with the Hornet ages ago. The actual problem was just a screwed up tube.

From the fuel tap feel the small tube for any rips or tears. It should go from the tap to the back of the cylinders. Found the problem was that it had tarnished at the end. All I had to do was cut it slightly and put it back in. This little tube created pressure and "pulled" the diaphragm of the fuel tap and let petrol flow. No harm in checking and it takes like 1 minute. I was also off the road because of that little dick for a month Rolling Eyes

My Hornet at that point would run on choke but if youi took it off it would die. And it did sound like fuelling problems (which it was)

Could also check to see if petrol is getting into the carbs?
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'99 Hornet 600 Sad, VFR 400 NC30 '92 Neutral, Kasawamasaki GT 550 Crying or Very sad, '98 Hornet 600 Mr. Green
**\Tarmacsurfer/** said: It's that immaculately manly coiffure of yours isn't it. One glimpse of your virile locks and the punters can't wait to buy whatever it is you suggest, as it might let them be just a little bit like the Adonis that is our very own Molly Very Happy Doovydoo said: Its not my fault I can't get it up properly, I just wasn't blessed Wink
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 18:32 - 15 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really should learn to do more bikey things. Haven't 'checked' my carbs in the 3 years I've owned it (nearly 4 now).

Will check the fuel tank hoses, but can't help thinking it's related to the rattle Thinking
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From September 2014 to January/February 2015 I will not be using any English, nor reading any. As such, I won't be on here. PM at will, but I won't be checking/posting unless in emergencies. Certainly not for the first couple of months. Please berate me savagely if I break that rule...
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m0l0t0v
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PostPosted: 18:53 - 15 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never checked them either unless I had to drain the diesel and the time the pipe had tarnished.

I can't comment on the rattle though.. But checking to see if the carbs have petrol in (by usng the drain screw) and checking the pipes takes literally a couple of minutes and you can cross fuelling problems of your list or be safe in the knowledge it's jut a pipe which is cheap. Razz
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'99 Hornet 600 Sad, VFR 400 NC30 '92 Neutral, Kasawamasaki GT 550 Crying or Very sad, '98 Hornet 600 Mr. Green
**\Tarmacsurfer/** said: It's that immaculately manly coiffure of yours isn't it. One glimpse of your virile locks and the punters can't wait to buy whatever it is you suggest, as it might let them be just a little bit like the Adonis that is our very own Molly Very Happy Doovydoo said: Its not my fault I can't get it up properly, I just wasn't blessed Wink
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 19:05 - 15 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

m0l0t0v wrote:
But checking to see if the carbs have petrol in (by usng the drain screw)


Again, something I should know Embarassed

Ah well, I'll check haynes.

I've just found out you can buy exhaust springs off of ebay fairly painlessly. The bugger is that I can't seem to find any short enough for the manifold end (like <50mm). I'm hoping that combined with the stuff suggested in the rattle thread might stop it.

I'm pretty certain I can hear it blowing from the port, which could be causing a lot of problems.

After that I'll go into full panic.

Oh and the * from the OP was about oil level checks. With a screw cap dipstick thing, I know the bike is meant to be upright when you check the level. But are you meant to screw up the dipstick or just rest it in the hole?
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From September 2014 to January/February 2015 I will not be using any English, nor reading any. As such, I won't be on here. PM at will, but I won't be checking/posting unless in emergencies. Certainly not for the first couple of months. Please berate me savagely if I break that rule...
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 19:16 - 15 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try wacking your 'famous for failing' (my bike has the same one) fuel pump with a spanner to see if the problem goes away temporarily.
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m0l0t0v
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 15 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

bonny_ricardo wrote:

Again, something I should know Embarassed

Ah well, I'll check haynes.

I've just found out you can buy exhaust springs off of ebay fairly painlessly. The bugger is that I can't seem to find any short enough for the manifold end (like <50mm). I'm hoping that combined with the stuff suggested in the rattle thread might stop it.

I'm pretty certain I can hear it blowing from the port, which could be causing a lot of problems.

After that I'll go into full panic.

Oh and the * from the OP was about oil level checks. With a screw cap dipstick thing, I know the bike is meant to be upright when you check the level. But are you meant to screw up the dipstick or just rest it in the hole?


Laughing I thought I was bad!

The screw will be just a small (flat head from what I remember) at the bottom of the carbs and you should be able to reach all 4 (2 from one side and 2 from other) and just undo them and leave it until no petrol comes out (if any) and then try starting up the bike. If it doesn't start up (without throttle) then use some throttle to hopefully get petrol into the carbs. If after that there's no petrol in the carbs then you know your problem Razz

As for checking oil levels you just rest it. And obviously upright s you know Wink
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'99 Hornet 600 Sad, VFR 400 NC30 '92 Neutral, Kasawamasaki GT 550 Crying or Very sad, '98 Hornet 600 Mr. Green
**\Tarmacsurfer/** said: It's that immaculately manly coiffure of yours isn't it. One glimpse of your virile locks and the punters can't wait to buy whatever it is you suggest, as it might let them be just a little bit like the Adonis that is our very own Molly Very Happy Doovydoo said: Its not my fault I can't get it up properly, I just wasn't blessed Wink
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 15 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

yen_powell wrote:
Try wacking your 'famous for failing' (my bike has the same one) fuel pump with a spanner to see if the problem goes away temporarily.


Ah, didn't know they were tempermental. Will have a listen, but it was only replaced about a year ago (albeit second hand).
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China traffic/travel bike vid - When I make a sweeping statement, please add the word 'statistically' in to the sentence before you bitch...
From September 2014 to January/February 2015 I will not be using any English, nor reading any. As such, I won't be on here. PM at will, but I won't be checking/posting unless in emergencies. Certainly not for the first couple of months. Please berate me savagely if I break that rule...
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 19:36 - 15 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

m0l0t0v wrote:



Laughing I thought I was bad!


Shh you. I've fitted a clutch all by myself Wink And I'm a diva at brake systems.

Just little fiddly things hidden behind a half hour fairing removal... pff

Will have a look at the carbs. They could probably do with a drain by now.
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China traffic/travel bike vid - When I make a sweeping statement, please add the word 'statistically' in to the sentence before you bitch...
From September 2014 to January/February 2015 I will not be using any English, nor reading any. As such, I won't be on here. PM at will, but I won't be checking/posting unless in emergencies. Certainly not for the first couple of months. Please berate me savagely if I break that rule...
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m0l0t0v
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PostPosted: 20:36 - 15 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

bonny_ricardo wrote:

Shh you. I've fitted a clutch all by myself Wink And I'm a diva at brake systems.

Just little fiddly things hidden behind a half hour fairing removal... pff

Will have a look at the carbs. They could probably do with a drain by now.


Come sort my brakes out and I'll give you a hand on the pipes and carbs Wink
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'99 Hornet 600 Sad, VFR 400 NC30 '92 Neutral, Kasawamasaki GT 550 Crying or Very sad, '98 Hornet 600 Mr. Green
**\Tarmacsurfer/** said: It's that immaculately manly coiffure of yours isn't it. One glimpse of your virile locks and the punters can't wait to buy whatever it is you suggest, as it might let them be just a little bit like the Adonis that is our very own Molly Very Happy Doovydoo said: Its not my fault I can't get it up properly, I just wasn't blessed Wink
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 20:53 - 15 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you've owned the bike nearly 4 years now, ever changed the fuel filter?
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 23:31 - 15 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

bonny_ricardo wrote:
yen_powell wrote:
Try wacking your 'famous for failing' (my bike has the same one) fuel pump with a spanner to see if the problem goes away temporarily.


Ah, didn't know they were tempermental. Will have a listen, but it was only replaced about a year ago (albeit second hand).
The contact breakers inside the plastic end cap of the pump weld themselves shut. Mine usually last anywhere between 20,000 and 40,000 miles each. How many miles has your secondhand one done?
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 23:33 - 15 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

yen_powell wrote:
The contact breakers inside the plastic end cap of the pump weld themselves shut. Mine usually last anywhere between 20,000 and 40,000 miles each. How many miles has your secondhand one done?


Shouldn't do, mine last about 80k before I wear the contact breaker out.
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 23:54 - 15 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
So you've owned the bike nearly 4 years now, ever changed the fuel filter?


Aye, got a brand new one when my fuel pump shuffled off this world.

Just the man I wanted to PM though, I'm sorting out some flue sealant to do the headers with (ala Geri's suggestion) and I could really do with more manifold springs. The problem is the buggers are quite little, ~50mm unsprung (for a blue flame) and all the ones on ebay are 60+mm. Any chance you have any in stock?
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China traffic/travel bike vid - When I make a sweeping statement, please add the word 'statistically' in to the sentence before you bitch...
From September 2014 to January/February 2015 I will not be using any English, nor reading any. As such, I won't be on here. PM at will, but I won't be checking/posting unless in emergencies. Certainly not for the first couple of months. Please berate me savagely if I break that rule...
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 10:59 - 16 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

bonny_ricardo wrote:

50mm unsprung (for a blue flame) and all the ones on ebay are 60+mm. Any chance you have any in stock?


Not in stock but I will see if they're available.
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 14:13 - 16 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
bonny_ricardo wrote:

50mm unsprung (for a blue flame) and all the ones on ebay are 60+mm. Any chance you have any in stock?


Not in stock but I will see if they're available.


Ta mate. I'm not certain what size they are though, so maybe a couple of 40mm and 50mm would be more prudent. Don't want them going twang, but need them under a fair bit of tension.

Will probably take it all apart and flue sealant it up as well Thumbs Up
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China traffic/travel bike vid - When I make a sweeping statement, please add the word 'statistically' in to the sentence before you bitch...
From September 2014 to January/February 2015 I will not be using any English, nor reading any. As such, I won't be on here. PM at will, but I won't be checking/posting unless in emergencies. Certainly not for the first couple of months. Please berate me savagely if I break that rule...
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 16 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exhaust springs are available in 55mm, 70mm and 85mm. All cost £1.10 each.
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 14:44 - 16 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
Exhaust springs are available in 55mm, 70mm and 85mm. All cost £1.10 each.


Is that how small they go Shocked

Ah well, must be that size. Unless you've heard BlueFlame ones are especially fiddly.

How can I order a few of them, and do you know how long they will take roughly?
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China traffic/travel bike vid - When I make a sweeping statement, please add the word 'statistically' in to the sentence before you bitch...
From September 2014 to January/February 2015 I will not be using any English, nor reading any. As such, I won't be on here. PM at will, but I won't be checking/posting unless in emergencies. Certainly not for the first couple of months. Please berate me savagely if I break that rule...
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 14:56 - 16 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

bonny_ricardo wrote:
Will check the fuel tank hoses, but can't help thinking it's related to the rattle Thinking


Split vacuum pipe would result in air getting into the inlet of one of the cylinders, making it run lean and also having much the same effect as having that cylinders carb massively out of balance.

All the best

Keith
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 15:25 - 16 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
yen_powell wrote:
The contact breakers inside the plastic end cap of the pump weld themselves shut. Mine usually last anywhere between 20,000 and 40,000 miles each. How many miles has your secondhand one done?


Shouldn't do, mine last about 80k before I wear the contact breaker out.
I've had 3 standard Honda/Mitsubishi pumps from new, plus a secondhand CBR600 one and they usually last 40k each, two of those were the 'new upgraded it won't fail this time sir' versions. I have also had a Mikuni vacuum pump which was strangely fine for 40,000 miles then started playing up.

I am currently running a Facet solid state type pump which is a third of the cost of a Honda genuine pump. Time will tell if it's going to get past my magic 40,000 miles wall.....
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 17:01 - 16 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never had that problem with them although i do have a far few failed ones in a box.
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 18:50 - 16 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
Never had that problem with them although i do have a far few failed ones in a box.
I pulled a few apart out of curiosity to see what the points looked like. I have seen a few solutions to the problem, which seem to involve calming the spark down with some sort of supressor to slow down the wear on the contact faces. I will know in another 20-30,000 miles if the Facet solid state version of the pump is any better or if I should just treat bike fuel pumps as a service item.
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m0l0t0v
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PostPosted: 00:35 - 17 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:

Split vacuum pipe would result in air getting into the inlet of one of the cylinders, making it run lean and also having much the same effect as having that cylinders carb massively out of balance.

All the best

Keith


Wouldn't it stop fuel getting to the carbs though? Or is that as well as?
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'99 Hornet 600 Sad, VFR 400 NC30 '92 Neutral, Kasawamasaki GT 550 Crying or Very sad, '98 Hornet 600 Mr. Green
**\Tarmacsurfer/** said: It's that immaculately manly coiffure of yours isn't it. One glimpse of your virile locks and the punters can't wait to buy whatever it is you suggest, as it might let them be just a little bit like the Adonis that is our very own Molly Very Happy Doovydoo said: Its not my fault I can't get it up properly, I just wasn't blessed Wink
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chillpill
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PostPosted: 13:28 - 17 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

dont know much about 4-stokes but im gona throw it out there anyway .......... valve clearances Confused ?
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 17 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

chillpill wrote:
dont know much about 4-stokes but im gona throw it out there anyway .......... valve clearances Confused ?


Funnily enough they are well overdue, but I can't imagine they would suddenly (literally overnight) cause problems.
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China traffic/travel bike vid - When I make a sweeping statement, please add the word 'statistically' in to the sentence before you bitch...
From September 2014 to January/February 2015 I will not be using any English, nor reading any. As such, I won't be on here. PM at will, but I won't be checking/posting unless in emergencies. Certainly not for the first couple of months. Please berate me savagely if I break that rule...
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