Off the beaten track touring questions

[Itchy]

Hi

Since I've gotten my beastie and will probably have a lot of time next year to travel (probably due to a lack of a job) , I have some questions to ask:

#1 I keep reading in Mondo Enduro about them having their tyre inner tube vulcanised , yet can't find much about this on the www , what is it ? , I know rubber gets vulcanised for some sort of reason so it holds itself together or something. Any ideas?.

#2 fixing inner tube punctures its like doing it on your push bike as a child right? , ie get the inner tube out (wheel off tyre lever to make a gap for the inner tube to come out) find the hole, clean the area near the hole sand it down a bit , put some rubber glue on it and stick a patch on it allow it to dry , pump up to test integrity , deflate put back in to tyre put back onto bike, as a side what tools do I need for this or is it worth getting my wire wheels sealed up to take tubeless?.

Am I correct?..

#3 My route is sort of Mondo Enduro but starting at Morrocco down to Cameroon across central Africa back through Israel (to scrounge off some mates who live there) up to turkey and following the Mondo Enduro route bar the Zilov Gap and some mushier parts of Mongolia, how do I locate petrol stations ? , I intend to carry a 25 litre tank , a 12 litre tank in place of most of my seat foam and lower the rear mud guard a touch and carry a 10-20 litre jerry can.

I think I'll be carrying a basic GPS thing , unlike Garmins or Tom tom and use in conjuction with maps.

#4 paniers ,a mono wheel trailer or neither? I intend to travel with just the biking clothes + one change , a small tent stove , food and spares with the tank bag for cameras etc. and thats IT which fills 100% the 42 litre top box and leaves me 20 litres of space above the seat tank thing.

#5 Anybody fancy coming with me? ,

Any thoughts adventure riders?

Ta
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[Zenarchy]

I'm not sure about #1 but I know you can buy heavy duty inner tubes fairly cheaply from wemoto. I'd have guessed vulcanising an inner tube would just mean making it thicker, but I might be wrong.

You might like to have a look at this stuff called rideontps too https://www.ride-on-uk.com/ (bit like slime but seems to work better according to the US guys, has corrosion inhibitors and I seem to remember that you can still repair a puncture using a kit when you've used it which you can't with some of the others - though best to check that). You can get this in the UK now from that site and there are loads of reports on advrider.com about it (all positive that I found). I put some in my tubes and haven't had any problems with balance or anything (though not got a puncture yet to try it out). A single two bottle kit will be enough to do two africa twin tyres with a little left over, and it's around a £10er, so might be worth it for a little extra peace of mind.

#2 - I haven't needed to do this yet, but I think you just need some tire irons and a bike tube specific puncture repair kit, and some powder/soap to make fitting easier. From what I can gather tubed tyres are a much better bet for what you're planning, particularly if any of it is off-road or on bad roads, as you've got more chance of being able to get yourself away from the side of the road repairing a tube, and spare tubes can be carried more easily than spare tyres, plus they'll run better at low pressures (that may be needed for any off-road parts of your trip). I think this is why most of the off-road bikes tend to have tubes.

#5 - I would love to but a trip like that is still a bit of a dream for me (though I'm hoping to get into europe in the spring, then all going well maybe morocco or somewhere later in the year if I can afford it). There's a forum on the horizons unlimited website 'travellers seeking travellers' that you might find helpful if you don't find some people from here. When are you planning on going (just incase I win the lottery or get a big contract or something)?

[yen_powell]

When they say vulcanised they just mean a proper tube repair rather than a by the side of the road cycle type fix. By the roadside ones can fail eventually (had a few fail, I am rubbish at putting them on) but vulcanised patches are pretty good.

Tube/tyre removal needs plenty of practice, then it becomes very very easy. You need to start changing your own tyres rather than letting the shops do it. There is a particular type of tyre lever that makes it so much easier. Since I bought a set I have never nipped a tube refitting tyres, they have a small ridge that seems to stop the lever doing that. I think they are made by Buzzetti and are sold singly at about £8 each.

I warn you now, Africa Twins have the hardest bead to break on the rear wheel in the known universe. I had a puncture from a nail at 90mph and the bead still needed a mechanical breaker to loosen it.

If you're going away it would be a good idea to get a small bead breaker, ask on the XRV site, I've seen people talking about them there.

I had no trouble finding petrol stations is Morocco, just ask someone, same for anything you need really, people are always helpful, especially when you're on a bike.
____________________
Blackmail is a nasty word........but not as nasty as phlegm!
XT1200Z and a DR350 in bits

[Zenarchy]

[tatters]

Bead breaker and irons in a small set, expensive but a good desgin for a portable bead breaker


https://www.ascycles.com/detail.aspx?ID=44770



Old style type

https://www.ascycles.com/detail.aspx?ID=2110
____________________
Past:NRG50,AF1125(x2),NSR125RR,ZZR250,CX500,VFR400,KR1S,ZZR600(x2),CB400N,YZF1000(x2),KH125,Z200,FX400R,CBR954RR(x2)GPZ500S,GT550,VFR750F(x2),RD350N,XR650R,CBR600F,CB250,KDX250,YZF750R,CRM250,400EXC,KLR650,TTR600RE,DR350S,R100GSPD,RGV250,VMAX1200,DL650,KZ750 Present:G650XC,C12,CRF450X,1190ADV

[yen_powell]

[Faldo]

If you haven't already, it might be worth reading this thread:

https://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=407209

It's a long read, but there are some awesome pics.

I'm sure there's some pictures of 'petrol stations' in Mongolia in there somewhere, and they did their trip on ATs.

Looks awesome, hope to see a write up from ya!

I hope to do a similar trip one day, but the usual job commitments are stopping me for the time being.
____________________
Current: ZZR1400
Previous: ZXR 400 L9, ZX-7R P5, ZZR 400, ZX-7R P6, Bandit 600, GSXR 750 Slingshot, DRZ400, DR650, ZX10R C1H, ZXR 750 L1, ZXR 750 L3, '99 ZX7R P4, KTM 300 EXC, ZX-9R E1, TDM850

[Nath]

What they said about puncture repairs. If you've never tried changing a bike or car tyre before you'll probably be amazed by how much force could be necessary particularly if you're doing it wrong. I've probably nipped something like 8 tubes in learning, though I now seem to have the nack but also getting some old-fashioned 'spoon' end tyre levers seemed to help.

Best way to break the bead of a tyre is using the sidestand of another bike. Obviously this isn't really possible if you're on your own.

Half way through a puncture "nightmare" in Germany. Got a puncture and riding with it flat for too long led to the valve being ripped out the tube, and tyre being damaged with the metal plies starting to poke out. A long story but it can be summed up that it's definately worth practising tyre changing repeatedly at home until you're confident at it if you want to save undo grief by the side of the road. And carry spare tubes!!
https://homepage.ntlworld.com/steven.coy/images/europe_2008/6.jpg
____________________
Hard livin', hard luck.

[natv4]

I've been very lucky so far, external plugs (tubeless tyres) have been fine for all my problems; which includes my trip around Morocco, with some (very) light off-roading.

I do think I might have had one hell of an adventure (read problem) if I did have a puncture I couldn't fix though.


Nath, I wish I had your motor skills. You make changing tyres sound like a piece of cake. Like mechanics do when talking about rebuilding an engine - Which, from your write ups, you could probably do at the side of the road too.

Just to make everyone else feel better; although it is VERY useful to be able to do these things, it is possible to tour without them. When things go wrong, they will take longer, but you will meet interesting people and have some real adventures. That said you may get robbed by bandits or loose your bike whilst trying to get spares/assistance. Whatever happens, a journey like this is worth every moment. Apparently there is no such thing as bad luck.

Good luck Itchy, sounds like one hell of a trip.
____________________
Travelling around the world...a bit at a time. Where am I now? / Visit my BLOG
Bike: Blue Honda VFR800fi (*NEW*) Mileage: 22k Countries visited: GB/F/D/CZ/PL/E/I/B/A/HR/H/Rus/E/MA
West Europe...2004, East Europe...2005, Russia/France...2006, Morocco...2007

[tatters]

I,ve been umming and arrring over tubes or tubeless as my bike can take either plus l,ve been fitting both tube and tubeless tires for years, settled on tubed for my adventures because........


Breaking the bead is very differcult without a descent bead breaker on tubeless tires and again seating the bead without a compressor or a large 80g+ CO2 bottle, there are tricks like using a racket strap to compress the tires bead closer the the rim or using combustible liquids (very dangerous on small wheels) but its half arsed and does,nt always work the same again with various portable bead breakers they can be a right pain and not always work not great if your stuck in the middle of nowhere.

otherwise if breaking and seating the bead was,nt a issue l,ll go with tubeless all the time.




Major Pros and Cons



Tubeless

Pros


warms up slower than tubed, there for slower tread wear

easy to fix a puncher without taking the wheel/tire off the bike using a plugging kit

in the event of a puncher and sudden deflation the strong mechanical/chemical bond of the bead helps stop the tire from coming off the rim which at speed is going to throw you off.

safer running at lower pressures as the bead again holds the tyre on the rim and theres no risk of ripping the Schrader valve out if the tyre moves on the rim

Higher speed ratings for size than tubed


Cons


sidewall damage/punchers are impossible to repair

seating the bead generally requires high pressure air (100-130 psi), other methods are unreliable or dangerous.

breaking the bead is differcult but can be done with sidestands, G clamps, plus other small gizmos but again they dont always work unlike large workshop ones.




Tubed


Pros


easy to remove and fit tires from and onto rims with just tire levers and lubrication (takes me 15 mins on the side of the road/trail)

rims can be fitted with "rim locks" which clamp the tire and stop it from rotating at low pressures

can be fitted to tubeless rims designed for tubeless tires (very dangerous to run tubed tires without inner tubes on tubeless rims).

more readably available outside of europe though normally in common trail bike sizes such as 17/18/21"



Cons


punches can deflate the tire very fast and cause the tire to come off the rim there for losing control and crashing the bike, a exception to this is "safety rims" found bikes such as the BMW GS range which really is a bonus of the tubeless spoked wheel design were spokes run to a high ridged rim which as well as allowing tubeless tires to be fitted makes it hard for a tire to come off the rim.


punches can be a bastred to repair as the inner tube has to be removed from the tire after taking the wheel off the bike and levering off one side of the tire off the rim, you can then either put a new inner tube in which are quite cheap at around £5-15 or patch the tube just as you would on a push bike if the hole is not too large.


running at low pressure with out a "rim lock" can cause the tire to rotate on the rim and since the inner tubes Schrader valve is clapped to the rim by two 8mm nuts the Schrader valve can be ripped out making the inner tube useless and unrepairable.


inner tubes can be pinches between the rim/tire or ripped when fitting a tire with the tire levers (very depressing especially on the side of the road when its pissing down after a long day )


lower speed ratings for size than tubeless
____________________
Past:NRG50,AF1125(x2),NSR125RR,ZZR250,CX500,VFR400,KR1S,ZZR600(x2),CB400N,YZF1000(x2),KH125,Z200,FX400R,CBR954RR(x2)GPZ500S,GT550,VFR750F(x2),RD350N,XR650R,CBR600F,CB250,KDX250,YZF750R,CRM250,400EXC,KLR650,TTR600RE,DR350S,R100GSPD,RGV250,VMAX1200,DL650,KZ750 Present:G650XC,C12,CRF450X,1190ADV

[Toukakoukan]

one tip I heard of on my that sounded like a bloody fantastic idea was drilling a hole in the rim big enough for the valve to go through and putting a second uninflated tube in underneath the one you're going to inflate, so should you get a puncture you simply remove the foreign object and inflate your spare tube!

Still I had craploads of punctures in pakistan (none anywhere else on the 16,000 mile route oddly) and always there was a tyre wallah nearby who would fix the puncture for 50p and save me the hassle of breaking the bead and nipping the tube when trying to fit it back on.

That said of course, I wouldn't have wanted to ride through baluchistan without the capability to fix it on my own
____________________
RTW Motorcycle Blog

[Faldo]

How's the arm doing Toukakoukan ?
____________________
Current: ZZR1400
Previous: ZXR 400 L9, ZX-7R P5, ZZR 400, ZX-7R P6, Bandit 600, GSXR 750 Slingshot, DRZ400, DR650, ZX10R C1H, ZXR 750 L1, ZXR 750 L3, '99 ZX7R P4, KTM 300 EXC, ZX-9R E1, TDM850

[Itchy]

But surely if you get a REALLY big nail in your tyre it'll poke a hole through the 2nd inner tube too? ,
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[Toukakoukan]

[G]

Anybody heard of anyone doing the dual-innertube thing and it working?
Like the idea, though it will be done at the expense of even more rotating unsprung weight, which won't be great for off-road ride.

[Itchy]

[tatters]

[G]

I'd much prefer weight in my pannier.
Weight in the rear wheel is spinning, so it's going to resist you turning a fair bit more than weight in your pannier.
It's also unsprung weight; which is the most important to lose.
Low unsprung weight means the suspension doesn't have to work as hard to track the surface: going over a dip, the suspension doesn't have to 'push' as hard to get the rear wheel to follow the surface, meaning you can stay relatively more level. Similar for up a bump, where i reckon the tyre should also be put under less stress too.

Imagine gliding smoothly over bumpy ground in a hover car. If you leant out the window and held a push bike wheel on stick it might not be too hard to keep in contact with the ground by gently pushing down. Do the same with a heavy motorcycle wheel on your stick and it's going to be a lot harder to stop it flying into the air and you may have to push down quite hard to get it to stay in contact with sharp dips.
(Err, not the most intuitive scenario to explain it, I apologise.)

I was thinking you'd use a lighter tube for the second one tatters, but yea not going to be great - then sort it when you've got to your destination for the night, etc.
Still not that great at doing tyres, but do seem to be getting a bit
better.

[Toukakoukan]

[G]

[tatters]

[Itchy]

[Pernig]

[yen_powell]

I've had two front wheel punctures so far and just wobbled to a stop. With the first I was on a 60mph bypass with no hard shoulder, so I carried on riding in small bursts of about 100 metres, stopping to check the tyre wasn't coming off the rim, then carrying on till I got to a safe place to pull off the road.

I put the bike on the centrestand and couldn't believe my luck, there was a highways department storage area across the road full of road chippings and more importantly a pile of bricks that I could use to get the front wheel in the air and replace the tube.
____________________
Blackmail is a nasty word........but not as nasty as phlegm!
XT1200Z and a DR350 in bits