Dropped pin into my engine EDIT:Sorted Now compression low?

[----]

Pulling the head off my engine (honda cm125 custom) and i dropped the top timing chain tensioner pin into the engine.

What's my options?
I cant see it and i tryed one of the telescopic magnetic tool things with no luck.
Tryed fishing around with the same tool going through the sump plug hole again with no luck.
Even tryed taking the clutch cover off in the hope i might get to it through that way but no chance.Next plan was to pull the engine out and tip it upside down in the hope it might fall out but i cant see that happening.

Any other options other than splitting the crankcase (which i wouldn't have a clue how to do anyway)

Thanks
Dave
____________________
DRZ-400sm

[prawny1]

pull the barrels off aswell, you might get lucky and be abled to reach it with them off, other wise its a case of popping the side covers off or worst case splitting the crankcases.

[----]

The stage i'm at so far...

https://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x13/fronterapics/CM125/Image116.jpg

https://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x13/fronterapics/CM125/Image115.jpg

https://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x13/fronterapics/CM125/Image113.jpg

https://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x13/fronterapics/CM125/Image110.jpg


____________________
DRZ-400sm

[prawny1]

how big is the pin? big enough to fit through the sump plug hole?

If it is you might get away with flushing it out with the oil or a couple of gallons of cheap (asda smart price shit) oil mixed with petrol maybe.

hope you don't have to split the bottom end bud, but if worse comes to the worst you can use the opportunity to check all the bottom end components.

[----]

I also tryed draining all the oil through but it wouldn't shift it.
The pin itself probably would fit through the sump plug hole,it's a bit thinner than the average pencil and about 2" long.

Splitting the crankcase isn't really an option as i wouldn't have a clue how to go on about that,so if i cant get it out it means selling the bike as parts

It only needed new piston rings aswell absolutely gutted.

I'm starting to wonder if maybe i could just leave it in there as the crank still turns freely enough,but it's probably just a matter of time before it hits something?
____________________
DRZ-400sm

[MaybeGuy]

if its in the sump now it should be ok, as it would go with the current of the oil being taken through the strainer.

whats it made of? get a magnetic sump plug and take it out next oil change?
____________________
Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!!
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith

[----]

magnetic sump plug would probably be the way to do it.
Im going to tip the engine upside down and if it doesn't come out i'll leave it and see what happens.
Still have to find a new pin to replace it with now though.

Attached a pic@: the pin i dropped is numbered 6 in the pic.
____________________
DRZ-400sm

[----]

P.S.

Anyone know there the timing marks are on this?
Usually theres a "T" marked on the flywheel,but not in this case.I cant see any marks anywhere else either?

Thanks
Dave
____________________
DRZ-400sm

[MaybeGuy]

T is the TDC, and the cam gear should have 2 lines on it.

failing that, you're looking for the point where all valves should be closed on the lead cylinder, and halfway between opening.

https://www.dansmc.com/valve_timing_lines.jpg
____________________
Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!!
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith

[----]

Cheers matt.
It's gonna be a twat then as there's no marks on the cam sprocket or on the flywheel.

Good news is that i got the pesky little pin out of the block .WooHoo

Ok so next job is to figure out why the compression was down so low.

Left pot:
75psi
105psi with a touch of oil down the bore.

Right pot:
10 psi
50 ish with oil down.

This would point to rings but they look fine,and theres only some very light scratches on the bore and piston.
Suppose there cheap and easy to replace regardless but i'd like to know if it's possible to get the measurements of what they should be so i can check 'em (the rings that is)

I may have to order a workshop manual from ebay i think
____________________
DRZ-400sm

[nightshaddow]

the source of low compression could be your valves, check your timing and your gaps if there slightly out then compression could be lost there, also check condition of head gasket as you are lookin at rings anyway you could do it all as you go along
____________________
"WHAT DO YOU MEAN 100 MPH THATS IMPOSSIBLE Its chinese OFFICER."
Current rides CB 125 TDE(the next project) NS125RK ( now on the road ) CB125TDC (soon to be project 17) melody ( the nephews )

[MaybeGuy]

definatly sounds like the timing is out.
not by much by the sounds of it, as its turning over without valve contact.

your close, so do it by trial and error very carefully, chances are you're 1 or 2 teeth out.

move it 1 tooth one way, and turn over very carefully and feel for piston to valve contact. if it stops, move the timing 2 teeth the other way and try again till you get it right.

just remember that the exhaust opens after the compression stroke and you'll be fine.
____________________
Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!!
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith

[rottie007]

surely if his timing was out it would affect BOTH cylinders??

[MaybeGuy]

[----]

Went to see the bloke i bought it off who told me he replaced the piston rings and valve stem oil seals.
I noticed when i was pulling it apart he had put the right piston (the one with the lowest compression) in the wrong way round(had the IN markings facing forward!)

Also got the workshop manual off him which will help for the timing but it doesn't tell me what the compression should be
Checked the piston rings and there well in spec so now i'm thinking maybe he didn't seperate the gaps in the rings when he put them in,along with putting one of them in the wrong way round it's hard to tell what's wrong.

Will go have another play with it now.
____________________
DRZ-400sm

[nightshaddow]

defiantly check you valve clearances, if they open the tinyest bit it will cause a loss of compression also how did the head gasket look, for low compression there only 1 or 2 things it can be
____________________
"WHAT DO YOU MEAN 100 MPH THATS IMPOSSIBLE Its chinese OFFICER."
Current rides CB 125 TDE(the next project) NS125RK ( now on the road ) CB125TDC (soon to be project 17) melody ( the nephews )

[prawny1]

check for leaky valves, get some meths(because its blue and easier to see) or similar, stand the head up on its side (with the ports on the air) and fill the ports if the valves arn't perfectly seated you will see the liquid seep past,

chances are if the piston has been fitted backwards, then it has clipped the valves a little.

another way to check for bent valves is to remove them and put them in a good drill (one with a good true running chuck) and spin the valve, i use a drill and sand paper etc, to take the carbon build up off of the main part of a valve (not the seating face).

[----]

Sorted

Right exhaust valve wasn't seating properly.Going to lap them all in just to be sure,and hopefully differences in compression after the wet test was caused by the rings not being seated in the right place.

Just have to find a valve spring compressor that fits it now

Thanks for the reply's

Dave
____________________
DRZ-400sm

[prawny1]

most of the time you can use the push down type rather than the mechanical type spring compressor on small valves like these, i rest the valve to be released on a suitable sized socket (make sure the rest of the head is well supported) so that im actualy compressing the spring and not just opening the valve, a magnitic stick comes in handy for removing the collets one handed if you do end up using a push type.

I have seen a guy that uses deep reach sockets with the sides ground out as valve compressors, the sockets are still usable for light wieght jobs too, i think most motor factors sell cheapo spring compressors for about £20, its the adaptors for deep valves/heads that cost the money.

[----]

Yup,i used that same method years ago when doing valves on a rover 214 non of my 3 compressors would work so i used a socket underneath and got my brother to pull the collets out while i pressed the spring down with 2 screwdrivers .It worked but it was a twat since it was a 16v engine

Will give it a go tomorrow and see how it goes
____________________
DRZ-400sm