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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 02:23 - 17 Aug 2009    Post subject: As there is all this talk about drugs... Reply with quote

Just found this;

Is alcohol worse then ecstacy?

Watched the first 7 minutes so far, and it seems to be a very unbiased and factual program Thumbs Up

May help clear up a few untruths that some of the users (speaking in all manners) on here may have.
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China traffic/travel bike vid - When I make a sweeping statement, please add the word 'statistically' in to the sentence before you bitch...
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 02:37 - 17 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh god I rock Razz

Cannabis higher than Ecstacy and LSD. What have I been telling you kiddies.

Mr. Green
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China traffic/travel bike vid - When I make a sweeping statement, please add the word 'statistically' in to the sentence before you bitch...
From September 2014 to January/February 2015 I will not be using any English, nor reading any. As such, I won't be on here. PM at will, but I won't be checking/posting unless in emergencies. Certainly not for the first couple of months. Please berate me savagely if I break that rule...
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 09:34 - 17 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Think from a study mentioned back here:-

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=2197439#2197439

All the best

Keith
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Fawbish
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PostPosted: 09:42 - 17 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

My imagination is too vivid, because whenever one of these debates starts, I imagine a "warm up scene" like in a Tekken/Mortal Kombat fight, and some epic music in the background. Cool
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Andy C
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PostPosted: 18:32 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea still cant get over how in that study LSD is like 16th Shocked Shocked

Programs like this just fustrate me as people will always revert the arguement that if its illegal its wrong.

Question is though Bonny, would you really want anything legal?
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 18:56 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy C wrote:


Question is though Bonny, would you really want anything legal?


Yes, yes... erm, yes.

I don't like dealing with the scum that sell drugs. I don't like feeling like a criminal for wanting to take a substance in the comfort of my own home. I don't like unknown purity. I don't like supply problems. I don't like the massive cost. I don't like lining gang pockets, I'd rather (just) line the government pockets.
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China traffic/travel bike vid - When I make a sweeping statement, please add the word 'statistically' in to the sentence before you bitch...
From September 2014 to January/February 2015 I will not be using any English, nor reading any. As such, I won't be on here. PM at will, but I won't be checking/posting unless in emergencies. Certainly not for the first couple of months. Please berate me savagely if I break that rule...
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 21:41 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy C wrote:
Yea still cant get over how in that study LSD is like 16th Shocked Shocked


While the study had a logical basis (if it is the study I think it is), the actual figures seem to be pretty dubious. Basically they ranked them on 3 factors and then just added them together.

Like rating all bikes out of 10 on brakes, top speed and range, then adding the 3 factors up and giving that as a rating for how good the bike is.

All the best

Keith
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
Andy C wrote:
Yea still cant get over how in that study LSD is like 16th Shocked Shocked


While the study had a logical basis (if it is the study I think it is), the actual figures seem to be pretty dubious. Basically they ranked them on 3 factors and then just added them together.

Like rating all bikes out of 10 on brakes, top speed and range, then adding the 3 factors up and giving that as a rating for how good the bike is.

All the best

Keith


Brakes, top-speed and handeling, I reckon that'd be a valid rating.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 22:37 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Might well be unless you were looking for a touring bike Laughing .

After all, how important is it if something is addictive but totally unharmful, compared to something non additive but severely harmful?

All the best

Keith
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 23:16 - 19 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
Hi

Might well be unless you were looking for a touring bike Laughing .

After all, how important is it if something is addictive but totally unharmful, compared to something non additive but severely harmful?

All the best

Keith


You got me there. Bugger. Laughing
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 02:47 - 20 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

With any bike that would be crap, I mean you could have a bike that goes 300mph that turners on a dime and has a front drum brake, it would get a respectable score or 21/30 yet it is a shit pile death trap.
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Mushroom
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PostPosted: 04:46 - 20 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
While the study had a logical basis (if it is the study I think it is), the actual figures seem to be pretty dubious. Basically they ranked them on 3 factors and then just added them together.


Factors being harm,addictiveness and consequence to society..what else should they have done?
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Visitor Q
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PostPosted: 05:54 - 20 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed, there aren't many more ways to do it to be honest.

It's more just creditable scientists, who aren't advocating drugs, merely stating that the classification system makes no sense.

But hell, they don't want to back pedal on all this government funded propaganda, just because of something insignificant like the facts.
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China traffic/travel bike vid - When I make a sweeping statement, please add the word 'statistically' in to the sentence before you bitch...
From September 2014 to January/February 2015 I will not be using any English, nor reading any. As such, I won't be on here. PM at will, but I won't be checking/posting unless in emergencies. Certainly not for the first couple of months. Please berate me savagely if I break that rule...
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Mushroom
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PostPosted: 06:20 - 20 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strange isent it?.. i see nothing to gain from the government approach other than a fucked up society..instead of focusing on creating fully functional balanced people via education experience and responcibility in youth they just treat kids like muppets give them one hour of "OMG dont take teh drugs!" and by the time most hit the age of consumption they are in no way prepared or wise enough to it..

We could remove drug abuse from society by dealing with the issues that lead to it and leave a nice culture of drug use by choice..give it two decades the multinational giants would have had there fingers in the research pies and there would be a million better drugs on the market minus the harm.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 15:58 - 20 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mad_Mushroom wrote:
Factors being harm,addictiveness and consequence to society..what else should they have done?


Some kind of weighting or calculation rather than a simple addition. They say themselves they made no attempt at a weighting. For example if something is lethal on a single use then its rating would be not that much higher than something eventually harmful.

It is a start and far better than the knee jerk political opinions used in the past but far from complete.

Also, looking through the figures it would appear that some of the factors are not that scientifically calculated. For example, from an earlier post:-

me wrote:

After all, for social harms (including healthcare costs) Heroin only rated 2.54, compared to 2.21 for alcohol. Does that seem vaguely accurate for a single individuals use of these? From the figrues here it appears that heroin in 2007 killed 876 (587 England and Wales, 289 for Scotland) with 0.1% of the population using it. If that useage was 50% (so getting towards that of alcohol) with the same ratio of deaths then that would be ~440k a year, well over triple the death rate even vaguely attributed to alcohol. Doesn't really seem to square the rating if that rating takes into account useage levels.


bonny_ricardo wrote:
It's more just creditable scientists, who aren't advocating drugs, merely stating that the classification system makes no sense.


Agreed. And their classification is very much a first draft.

All the best

Keith
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Andy C
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PostPosted: 16:53 - 20 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

bonny_ricardo wrote:
Yes, yes... erm, yes.

I don't like dealing with the scum that sell drugs. I don't like feeling like a criminal for wanting to take a substance in the comfort of my own home. I don't like unknown purity. I don't like supply problems. I don't like the massive cost. I don't like lining gang pockets, I'd rather (just) line the government pockets.


Good points, but if on day everything was legallised based on how many people do not take drugs due to being illegal I reckon as a country drug usage would increase and the media would have a field day.

Weed maybe one day and reckon MDMA might make it to class B but thats about it Confused
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Dalemac
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PostPosted: 18:33 - 20 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as they dont ban alcohol thats fine.

every other drug on that list i have never taken. not because they are illegal or even unavaibable. simple just because i dont feel the need.
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Mushroom
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PostPosted: 19:20 - 20 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
After all, for social harms (including healthcare costs) Heroin only rated 2.54, compared to 2.21 for alcohol. Does that seem vaguely accurate for a single individuals use of these? From the figrues here it appears that heroin in 2007 killed 876 (587 England and Wales, 289 for Scotland) with 0.1% of the population using it. If that useage was 50% (so getting towards that of alcohol) with the same ratio of deaths then that would be ~440k a year, well over triple the death rate even vaguely attributed to alcohol. Doesn't really seem to square the rating if that rating takes into account useage levels


Good point there,if it were legal the strength would be consistent and the shit would not be cut,which would cut down deaths dramatically... as most deaths are due to cut gear and misjudgment of strength.

Thats one drug personally id never want to see on the shelf unless the addictive propertys were removed which is near impossible.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 20:18 - 20 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mad_Mushroom wrote:
Good point there,if it were legal the strength would be consistent and the shit would not be cut,which would cut down deaths dramatically... as most deaths are due to cut gear and misjudgment of strength.


Fair point, and probably true for many of the drugs that are sourced through dubious routes.

All the best

Keith
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colin1
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PostPosted: 23:08 - 20 Aug 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

The legality and moral acceptabiity of behaviour which may have negative effects for the individual or society, often comes down to practical matters like how many people are doing it already.

If everyone is already doing it (like owning guns in America) its going to look ok, even if it kills tonnes of people.

If its new and or only marginalised groups do it then its bad (like owning guns in England).

Its the way that something can be used to excess that causes the problems.

Arguably the more established, socially acceptable forms of intoxication, are crude and inefficient, and involve poisoning the lungs with smoke, or the body with alcohol. Modern chemicals, allow ingestion of psychoactive compounds with only the effects on the mind to worry about.
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