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Bike running like it's running out of fuel

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Misc
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PostPosted: 20:26 - 28 May 2010    Post subject: Bike running like it's running out of fuel Reply with quote

Hopefully BCF can help on this one too,

I made a thread somewhere down the forum about thinking my bike was restricted & was told to check the carbs for washers, so i did. I removed the airbox & the clamps but found no washers so put it all back together.

Went out for a ride & straight away the bike felt blocked & hesitant like it was running out of fuel (fuel was topped up) pulled over & changed the petrol tap settings & it ran better, not 100% but better nonetheless, went like this for about 2 miles & on the way home i had to pull over 4 or 5 times as the bike would rumble, lose power & eventually conk out. I waited a few minutes & it started again & seemed to run 'smoothly' for the next several hundred metres or so until it did it again. I now know this was the float or something filling up which explains why it started after a few minutes.

I moved both the vacuum & petrol hoses about & went for another ride, it started out feeling blocked & hesitant then after a minute or so the bike seemed back to normal, 15 minutes or so later it was back to the 'crappy' feel.

Any ideas? I haven't touched any settings or adjustments. Just removed air box & removed petrol tank/hoses. Also adjusted the tap settings several times.

Bike is a '96 bandit 600.

Cheers,
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oldbiker
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PostPosted: 20:49 - 28 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds like fuel starvation,
check for crap or water in the tank,
check that the fuel lines are clear,
check the vacuum pipe is clear,
check for crap in the float bowl,
check for crap in the jets and air ways (blow through with compressed air,
after all this check the float valve is clear and the float height is correct.

all these checks should take about an hour or so.

to check the fuel tap is working as it should, connect a litt bottle of fuel directly to the carbs via a small pipe.
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Misc
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PostPosted: 21:09 - 28 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

tzr.steve wrote:
sounds like fuel starvation,
check for crap or water in the tank,
check that the fuel lines are clear,
check the vacuum pipe is clear,
check for crap in the float bowl,
check for crap in the jets and air ways (blow through with compressed air,
after all this check the float valve is clear and the float height is correct.

all these checks should take about an hour or so.

to check the fuel tap is working as it should, connect a litt bottle of fuel directly to the carbs via a small pipe.


Cheers.

I don't have a clue how to check any of the above. Apart from the vacuum & fuel line. Laughing
Will give anything a go so if you can put each in a little more detail i'll give it a go tomorrow.

I have seen crap floating around in the tank but this was when it was running fine.

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Grimnir
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PostPosted: 22:00 - 28 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did these problems only start *after* you 'fiddled' with the bike? Did you make *absolutely* sure things went back where they should / as tight as they should?
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WetSparks
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PostPosted: 22:05 - 28 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you tried opening your petrol cap to let some air into the tank when the problem starts. If this makes a difference it would indicate you tank breather pipe is blocked somewhere.
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Misc
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PostPosted: 22:08 - 28 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grimnir wrote:
Did these problems only start *after* you 'fiddled' with the bike? Did you make *absolutely* sure things went back where they should / as tight as they should?


Yup, after i'd fiddled around a bit. The only things i removed where the carbs, 2 hoses from the fuel tap & the air filter. The carbs to the air filter are on tight but it wouldn't hurt to check the cars to the engine again, i'll do this tomorrow.

Anything that i might of popped out but didn't see? Like a hidden hose somewhere?

WetSparks wrote:
Have you tried opening your petrol cap to let some air into the tank when the problem starts. If this makes a difference it would indicate you tank breather pipe is blocked somewhere.


I did open the cap but only for several seconds or so, no difference really.
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swampy
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PostPosted: 22:18 - 28 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Misc wrote:
The carbs to the air filter are on tight but it wouldn't hurt to check the cars to the engine again, i'll do this tomorrow.


This might well be ya problem.... I remember similair symptoms years ago with my NSR. Turns out I thought I had pushed the carb into the rubber mainfold thingy properly, but had misaligned it... Thumbs Up
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Misc
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PostPosted: 22:19 - 28 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

swampy wrote:
Misc wrote:
The carbs to the air filter are on tight but it wouldn't hurt to check the cars to the engine again, i'll do this tomorrow.


This might well be ya problem.... I remember similair symptoms years ago with my NSR. Turns out I thought I had pushed the carb into the rubber mainfold thingy properly, but had misaligned it... Thumbs Up


Will definitely check this then. It's a bugger because it's awkward to see & get your hand down there.

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TUG
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PostPosted: 22:36 - 28 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fuel pump? Check that its pumping when you rev it up, had a cbr600f with same problem and it was the pump not doing its job past 13v.
If not that could possibly be a blocked jet.
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Misc
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PostPosted: 22:37 - 28 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

TUG wrote:
Fuel pump? Check that its pumping when you rev it up, had a cbr600f with same problem and it was the pump not doing its job past 13v.
If not that could possibly be a blocked jet.


How do you check this & the jet? Thumbs Up
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Grimnir
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PostPosted: 22:38 - 28 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Misc wrote:
it's awkward to see & get your hand down there.


Maybe that is a different thread?

(gets coat)
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Misc
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 28 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grimnir wrote:
Misc wrote:
it's awkward to see & get your hand down there.


Maybe that is a different thread?

(gets coat)


I thought someone may make a comment about that post. Laughing
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TUG
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PostPosted: 23:10 - 28 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Misc wrote:


How do you check this & the jet? Thumbs Up

Take the fuel pump outlet (one to the carbs) off and put in a bucket or container then run, rev the bike up (so its past 13volts) and if it stops pumping theres your problem.
The blocked jet means taking the carb apart unfortunaltly.
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Misc
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PostPosted: 23:15 - 28 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

TUG wrote:
Misc wrote:


How do you check this & the jet? Thumbs Up

Take the fuel pump outlet (one to the carbs) off and put in a bucket or container then run, rev the bike up (so its past 13volts) and if it stops pumping theres your problem.
The blocked jet means taking the carb apart unfortunaltly.


Thank you. Would this be a possible problem tho because it was running fine 48 hours ago.
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Grimnir
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PostPosted: 23:16 - 28 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Misc wrote:
I thought someone may make a comment about that post. Laughing

This is BCF! - you just know that someone will bring the tone down... Very Happy
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Ditto
Nearly there...



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PostPosted: 00:14 - 29 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bandits dont have a fuel pump, it's a gravity fed fuel line jobby.

Anyway now youve posted this across a variety of forums I dont know where to reply to Thinking lol

But you say you looked for restrictors. They would be on the other side of the carb going into the engine. And would not necessarily be discs. Mine uses diaphragms as restrictors which look like this and go into the top of the carbs:

https://images.wemoto.com/full/CARBURETTOR_DIAPHRAGM/10008505.jpg
But if you say its pulling well then it probably isnt restricted.

And these 3:

Quote:
check for crap in the float bowl,
check for crap in the jets and air ways (blow through with compressed air,
after all this check the float valve is clear and the float height is correct.


Require stripping down the carbs. And I believe youve checked everything else. Tis a strange one!

Oh and if you havnt got the service manual yet download it here:

https://www.carlsalter.com/download.asp?fileid=10830117012201170107010510951071108310701054104810481095105710531045105710571046011201000102
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Misc
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PostPosted: 00:41 - 29 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ditto wrote:
Bandits dont have a fuel pump, it's a gravity fed fuel line jobby.

Anyway now youve posted this across a variety of forums I dont know where to reply to Thinking lol

But you say you looked for restrictors. They would be on the other side of the carb going into the engine. And would not necessarily be discs. Mine uses diaphragms as restrictors which look like this and go into the top of the carbs:

https://images.wemoto.com/full/CARBURETTOR_DIAPHRAGM/10008505.jpg
But if you say its pulling well then it probably isnt restricted.

And these 3:

Quote:
check for crap in the float bowl,
check for crap in the jets and air ways (blow through with compressed air,
after all this check the float valve is clear and the float height is correct.


Require stripping down the carbs. And I believe youve checked everything else. Tis a strange one!

Oh and if you havnt got the service manual yet download it here:

https://www.carlsalter.com/download.asp?fileid=10830117012201170107010510951071108310701054104810481095105710531045105710571046011201000102


Posted here & the Bandit forum, always post a couple of threads when really stuck. The more help the better. Thumbs Up

When you say your restrictors went into the top of the carbs, what would be required to see this? Definitely nothing on either side of the carbs but might as well check the above whilst i'm down there.

Tis pulling well but i've heard that even some restricted bikes feel more or less the same until they reach higher speeds.

Thank you for the manual.

Smile
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Ditto
Nearly there...



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PostPosted: 00:50 - 29 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well basically, in this pic you put up:

https://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6241/dsc00243w.jpg

Underneath those black caps with the 4 screws is one of those diaphragms. The standard one just had 2 small holes in the bottom for the needle, but the restricted one has 4 more at the top near the rubber bit to allow more airflow, hence restricting the power.

When restricting this way you replace those diaphragms with the restricted ones.

Although saying that I would have thought they would all be standard, as its a bit cheap to sell you a bike with the restricted diaphragms and not the standard ones!

Theres this aswell actually just found. Similar manual but the Haynes one, not Suzuki:

https://filespump.com/go/18181219-suzuki-gsf600-1200-bandit-95-01-pdf.html
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Misc
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PostPosted: 14:49 - 29 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ditto, just took off the top cover of the carbs & here's what's underneath. It looks like the pic you posted but not sure what the standard ones look like so what do you make of it?

https://img46.imageshack.us/img46/759/dsc00266wv.jpg
https://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2974/dsc00267f.jpg
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Ditto
Nearly there...



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PostPosted: 15:00 - 29 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Youd have to lift it out, being careful not to damage the rubber and look at the metal stalk to it.

Restricted ones have 4 holes near the top by the rubber aswell as the 2 ones at the bottom. So 6 in total compared to 2 for the standard ones.
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Misc
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PostPosted: 15:23 - 29 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ditto wrote:
Youd have to lift it out, being careful not to damage the rubber and look at the metal stalk to it.

Restricted ones have 4 holes near the top by the rubber aswell as the 2 ones at the bottom. So 6 in total compared to 2 for the standard ones.


Took a photo, bad quality i know. All looks fine to me but here's a pic anyway.

https://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7344/dsc00268dx.jpg
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Ditto
Nearly there...



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PostPosted: 15:55 - 29 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yer id say your bikes standard!

Whats the latest on the fuel issue?
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Misc
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PostPosted: 16:04 - 29 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ditto wrote:
Yer id say your bikes standard!

Whats the latest on the fuel issue?


Just trying to sort out some of the advice with checking the pipes. Currently checking what you said with the fuel tap. Not sure if they're OK so have another pic. Smile

The carbs are all in tight, will need to check the main fuel hose but seems like a bugger to remove & get the clip off, even worse to put back on i'm guessing!

Checked the fuel tap filter & couldn't see anything built up in it.

https://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1637/dsc00269d.jpg
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Ditto
Nearly there...



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PostPosted: 16:08 - 29 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

That looks fine.

Yeh well its an easier job if your doing a carb removal. It could be the case that grit has gotten into the carbs which would block the jets or flood the foat bowls.

If youve already removed the carbs before its not a difficult job to strip them. Just have that workshop manual to hand.

This way you could check the jets, and the fuel pipe and should be able to discover the problem, as all the pipes are on ok by the looks of it.
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Misc
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PostPosted: 16:11 - 29 May 2010    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ditto wrote:
That looks fine.

Yeh well its an easier job if your doing a carb removal. It could be the case that grit has gotten into the carbs which would block the jets or flood the foat bowls.

If youve already removed the carbs before its not a difficult job to strip them. Just have that workshop manual to hand.

This way you could check the jets, and the fuel pipe and should be able to discover the problem, as all the pipes are on ok by the looks of it.


So if i've already detached the clamps on both sides of the carbs, is it just a case of unbolting them from the frame? Do i need to block the leftover holes in the engine when they're out? Always see people covering them up.

I've got some carb cleaner too. Thumbs Up
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