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| Kawksam |
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 Kawksam Nitrous Nuisance
Joined: 07 Jun 2012 Karma :     
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| Pete. |
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 Pete. Super Spammer

Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :     
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 Posted: 20:45 - 07 Jun 2012 Post subject: |
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I dunno what the gap should be but I'd guess about 0.4mm, you set it using a brass feeler gauge to stop the feeler being caught by the rotor magnets. ____________________ a.k.a 'Geri'
132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good  |
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| cb1rocket |
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 cb1rocket World Chat Champion
Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 20:45 - 07 Jun 2012 Post subject: |
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hard to explain without going into detail.
basically its this extract from a Honda, the same pretty much applies.
scroll down for the extract from the manual.
Although your wire colour will be different. You will see the what colour wire as it comes off the contact breaker assembly
https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=193662 |
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| cb1rocket |
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 cb1rocket World Chat Champion
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| Kawksam |
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 Kawksam Nitrous Nuisance
Joined: 07 Jun 2012 Karma :     
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| Pete. |
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 Pete. Super Spammer

Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :     
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 Posted: 22:26 - 07 Jun 2012 Post subject: |
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If you've no experience it might be best. Try to find an old boy though, because many mechanics nowadays won't have even seen a set of points.
I'm wondering though - if it's fitted with new points, what makes you think they need adjusting? ____________________ a.k.a 'Geri'
132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good  |
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| Vincent |
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 Vincent Banned

Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Karma :    
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| Pete. |
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 Pete. Super Spammer

Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :     
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 Posted: 22:41 - 07 Jun 2012 Post subject: |
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The gap and the timing are directly related. If you alter the gap, the ignition timing changes. That's why you do the gap first (to set the dwell), then the timing. Weird that they should say there is no adjustment. ____________________ a.k.a 'Geri'
132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good  |
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| Kawksam |
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 Kawksam Nitrous Nuisance
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| Vincent |
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 Vincent Banned

Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Karma :    
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 Posted: 22:47 - 07 Jun 2012 Post subject: |
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| Pete. wrote: | The gap and the timing are directly related. If you alter the gap, the ignition timing changes. That's why you do the gap first (to set the dwell), then the timing. Weird that they should say there is no adjustment. |
That's what I thought but it's here in black and white, it's a Kwak manual too, not a Haynes. Looking at the pic, there's only one place for adjustment, points are just set to open at the right time. Something else - on the magneto flywheel, some models, ('74 & '75) have two marks on the flywheel, one to show you where the woodruff key sits and one for the timing mark, get them mixed up at your peril
REMEMBER, ALL THIS INFO IS FOR THE EARLY KH125.
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/P6071594.jpg
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/P6071597.jpg
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/P6071601.jpg ____________________ Space Is Deep
Last edited by Vincent on 23:06 - 07 Jun 2012; edited 2 times in total |
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| Pete. |
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 Pete. Super Spammer

Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :     
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 Posted: 22:55 - 07 Jun 2012 Post subject: |
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I guess if the ramp angle of the points cam was quite steep, it wouldn't make a whole lot of difference to the dwell what the gap was. ____________________ a.k.a 'Geri'
132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good  |
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| karthead |
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 karthead Trackday Trickster
Joined: 01 Apr 2012 Karma :  
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 Posted: 09:38 - 08 Jun 2012 Post subject: |
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OOOH OOOOOOOOHHHH I HAVE SOMETHING TO ADD!
Let me start off with this: i have a KE125 engine, similar to kh100. And if the magnetos are the same, then i have something to tell you that will get it running awesomely.
Okay, so the magneto has two slots in it, correct? okay. i was told the point gap for my KE125 is .35mm, dunno if the same applies to your bike. when i finished putting it all together, it fired up, but was a bitch to start. so i took it apart. one thing that you need to know that the points need to open 3mm from tdc (top dead centre). when i slowly rotated the magneto, the i could see through the slots of the magneto exactly when the points opened in relation to the position of the piston, and it was too early. close the gap to make it open later, open the gap to make it open earlier. so i shoved in the .3mm feeler gauge (i think thats the size) and it looked perfect to me, although i havent started it up yet.
moral of the story: make it .35mm as a start, look at the position of the piston when the points open, and then if need be, adjust the gap untill it looks right to you.
i hope this helps |
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| Vincent |
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 Vincent Banned

Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Karma :    
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 Posted: 10:08 - 08 Jun 2012 Post subject: |
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Andre, according to the WM, you can only adjust when the points start to open. Normal points have two sets of adjusting pegs, these only have one that positions the stator plate. You need to be careful, sometimes advancing the ignition will give you more power, but it can also cause a meltdown 2.52mm BTDC is where you want the points to open on the 125, if you get yerself a dial gauge, (you can get them with a spark plug thread adapter), you'll get it bang on.
Also, take note of what I say above about early models having TWO timing marks, one is actually to let you know where the woodruff key is positioned as it's not visible when you replace the flywheel mag.. ____________________ Space Is Deep |
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| karthead |
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 karthead Trackday Trickster
Joined: 01 Apr 2012 Karma :  
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 Posted: 10:26 - 08 Jun 2012 Post subject: |
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| Vincent wrote: | Andre, according to the WM, you can only adjust when the points start to open. Normal points have two sets of adjusting pegs, these only have one that positions the stator plate. You need to be careful, sometimes advancing the ignition will give you more power, but it can also cause a meltdown  2.52mm BTDC is where you want the points to open on the 125, if you get yerself a dial gauge, (you can get them with a spark plug thread adapter), you'll get it bang on.
Also, take note of what I say above about early models having TWO timing marks, one is actually to let you know where the woodruff key is positioned as it's not visible when you replace the flywheel mag.. |
yeah i was worried about not knowing where the woodruff key was, but turns out i could just see it with the flywheel on. when you say advancing the ignition, do you mean making it spark earlier? do you consider 3mm btdc too early? what difference does it make? well this is important to know, thanks for the heads up  |
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| Vincent |
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 Vincent Banned

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| Vincent |
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 Vincent Banned

Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Karma :    
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 Posted: 10:39 - 08 Jun 2012 Post subject: |
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Oh, and yes, 3mm is "advancing the ignition" as you are setting it to fire 0.75 before it should. "retarding" the ignition would be having it fire after it should. the idea is to get the cylinder to fire just at the right time. You'd think the best time would be at Top Dead Centre but, as the combustion takes time, (tiny though it is), the big bang comes just after the plug has sparked so the piston is still moving up the cylinder until max power from the combustion is reached, (see "squish"). If it fires too early, it will try and push the piston back the other way. Too late and you have lost the opportunity for max efficiency. There is also the variant of how fast the engine is running to add into the equation, the higher the revs, the shorter time the igniting gases have to reach max power, tuned two strokes are timed to fire at the best position at high revs. I dare say this is where the power band comes from, ie; why the bike has much more power at certain revs.
I think that's right
hth ____________________ Space Is Deep
Last edited by Vincent on 10:56 - 08 Jun 2012; edited 3 times in total |
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| cb1rocket |
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 cb1rocket World Chat Champion
Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 10:46 - 08 Jun 2012 Post subject: |
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| Vincent |
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 Vincent Banned

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| karthead |
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 karthead Trackday Trickster
Joined: 01 Apr 2012 Karma :  
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 Posted: 11:00 - 08 Jun 2012 Post subject: |
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| Vincent wrote: | Oh, and yes, 3mm is "advancing the ignition" as you are setting it to fire 0.75 before it should. "retarding" the ignition would be having it fire after it should. the idea is to get the cylinder to fire just at the right time. You'd think the best time would be at Top Dead Centre but, as the combustion takes time, (tiny though it is), the big bang comes just after the plug has sparked so the piston is still moving up the cylinder until max power from the combustion is reached, (see "squish"). If it fires too early, it will try and push the piston back the other way. Too late and you have lost the opportunity for max efficiency. There is also the variant of how fast the engine is running to add into the equation, tuned two strokes are timed to fire at the best position at high revs.
I think that's right
hth |
okay, great, ill make sure to actually measure it this time (with a ruler, not a dial gauge because ive already raped the budged for my project!) and incase your wondering how the hell i fit a ruler through the spark plug hole, im going to take the head off to measure it. so, would you say roughly no more then 2.5mm, and somewhere between 2.5-2.0 to be safe? ill try and get it spot on if i can, but i dont think there is enough sizes on my feeler gauge to get the gap at the exact measurement to produce 2.52mm btdc.. |
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| Vincent |
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 Vincent Banned

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| karthead |
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 karthead Trackday Trickster
Joined: 01 Apr 2012 Karma :  
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| Kawksam |
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 Kawksam Nitrous Nuisance
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| cb1rocket |
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 cb1rocket World Chat Champion
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| Kawksam |
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 Kawksam Nitrous Nuisance
Joined: 07 Jun 2012 Karma :     
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 Posted: 12:08 - 08 Jun 2012 Post subject: |
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I'll get a book for it, haven't picked best day to pick a bike up pissing down with rain,
Can I check the crank shaft seals by sniffing gear box oil see if it smells of petrol  |
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| karthead |
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 karthead Trackday Trickster
Joined: 01 Apr 2012 Karma :  
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 14 years, 121 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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