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expletive deleted Valve shims

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jjdugen
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PostPosted: 20:32 - 28 May 2016    Post subject: expletive deleted Valve shims Reply with quote

OK Here's the thing.
Valve shims are tight with 2.10 shims.
Clearance should be 3 of whatever the things are in Metric (thous I understand).
The next size down that seem to be available are 2.05.
Put them in but I have clattery valve clearance.
I need to have a shim of 2.07 for proper clearance.

Unless someone knows where to find 2.07 7mm diameter shims, I was thinking that I could cut down a feeler gauge to give me the additional .02 to make the final shim size 2.07.
Anyone done this?

By the way, the sooner we get out of Europe and go back to inches and thous the bloody better!
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 20:38 - 28 May 2016    Post subject: Re: expletive deleted Valve shims Reply with quote

jjdugen wrote:
OK Here's the thing.
Valve shims are tight with 2.10 shims.
Clearance should be 3 of whatever the things are in Metric (thous I understand).
The next size down that seem to be available are 2.05.
Put them in but I have clattery valve clearance.
I need to have a shim of 2.07 for proper clearance.

Unless someone knows where to find 2.07 7mm diameter shims, I was thinking that I could cut down a feeler gauge to give me the additional .02 to make the final shim size 2.07.
Anyone done this?

By the way, the sooner we get out of Europe and go back to inches and thous the bloody better!


You wouldn't be able to get a ciggy paper between the difference from 2.1 to 2.05. That difference is fuck all where valves are concerned.

I've re-shimmed valves where the difference was .25 (cause not done by previous owner(s)) and there was no sign of chattering.
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jjdugen
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 28 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

My difference appears to be .05 as is, and it clatters. Inlet clearance should be .03 of these foreign things. They seem to quite a bit thicker than 3 thou!
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Try Soi 23 on Amazon for a good read.... Self promotion? Moi?
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 21:20 - 28 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

wemoto, wurth, cmsnl?
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 21:51 - 28 May 2016    Post subject: Re: expletive deleted Valve shims Reply with quote

jjdugen wrote:
By the way, the sooner we get out of Europe and go back to inches and thous the bloody better!


The sooner we get back to our own private measuring system?
Be so much easier. We can bring back the shilling too, have 240 pence to the pound again and all the maths will be so much easier.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 01:00 - 29 May 2016    Post subject: Re: expletive deleted Valve shims Reply with quote

dydey90 wrote:
jjdugen wrote:
By the way, the sooner we get out of Europe and go back to inches and thous the bloody better!


The sooner we get back to our own private measuring system?
Be so much easier. We can bring back the shilling too, have 240 pence to the pound again and all the maths will be so much easier.


Pints ounces inches etc etc Oooh Ah'm all a quiver with excitement. 😄
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Ichy
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PostPosted: 07:15 - 29 May 2016    Post subject: Re: expletive deleted Valve shims Reply with quote

jjdugen wrote:
OK Here's the thing.
Valve shims are tight with 2.10 shims.
Clearance should be 3 of whatever the things are in Metric (thous I understand).
The next size down that seem to be available are 2.05.
Put them in but I have clattery valve clearance.


What bike is it?

The '3' is possibly 0.3mm or 300 microns, this will also have a tolerance on it. The difference between the two sizes you have mentioned is only 50 microns. Your numbers don't make sense. Tell us te engine and someone will check the specs.
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jjdugen
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PostPosted: 18:33 - 29 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Been out today, clattery valves not withstanding.
Its a '97 CBR900RR Fireblade. About 30,000 miles.
The shims in question are the inlets. 4 of them (no 3 no. 4 cyl.) are marked 2.10, measured as such on my micrometer.
These are tight, minimal clearance.
The next available smaller size is 2.05. This gives a slack fitting number 4 feeler guage. I will call these metric thous because no-one seems to know what the meteric number is.... miili cintimetres?
Therefore, logic would dictate that I need a shim of 2.07 thickness to give the correct clearance of 3 of these things.
As I can't seem to source a 2.07 shim, my original question was, can I cut up a number 2 feeler gauge to take up the slack?

Vote out, bring back furlongs and chains, threepeny bits and tanners, pints and gills, its what won us two world wars and the world cup, all downhill since then!
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Try Soi 23 on Amazon for a good read.... Self promotion? Moi?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:57 - 29 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be looking at the cam chain tightener, can't see that the shim clearance is the issue.
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Ichy
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PostPosted: 19:42 - 29 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only thing I can find is:
Intake: 0.13--0.19 mm

Exhaust:0.19--0.25 mm

I cannot find anything that refers to '3'?

I can honesty say that I have never heard of a number 4 feeler gauge.

0.1mm is a tenth and 0.01mm is a hundredth. 0.001mm is a thousanth of a millimetre or a micron. There you go, someone does know what they are called Wink.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 19:50 - 29 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjdugen wrote:
Hi

Been out today, clattery valves not withstanding.
Its a '97 CBR900RR Fireblade. About 30,000 miles.
The shims in question are the inlets. 4 of them (no 3 no. 4 cyl.) are marked 2.10, measured as such on my micrometer.
These are tight, minimal clearance.
The next available smaller size is 2.05. This gives a slack fitting number 4 feeler guage. I will call these metric thous because no-one seems to know what the meteric number is.... miili cintimetres?
Therefore, logic would dictate that I need a shim of 2.07 thickness to give the correct clearance of 3 of these things.
As I can't seem to source a 2.07 shim, my original question was, can I cut up a number 2 feeler gauge to take up the slack?

Vote out, bring back furlongs and chains, threepeny bits and tanners, pints and gills, its what won us two world wars and the world cup, all downhill since then!


"Thou" is only ever used to denote "thousandths of an inch". Don't use it for metric terminology because it'll confuse things. A thousandth of a mm is actually a micrometer but you can't use that either because it'll confuse people as to whether you are talking about a unit of measure or a tool for measuring.

The difference of 0.02 you get from .07 to .05 is not enough to make any audible difference as far as valve clearances go. Something you have done is wrong.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 12:04 - 30 May 2016    Post subject: Re: expletive deleted Valve shims Reply with quote

jjdugen wrote:
OK Here's the thing.
Valve shims are tight with 2.10 shims.
Clearance should be 3 of whatever the things are in Metric (thous I understand).
The next size down that seem to be available are 2.05.
Put them in but I have clattery valve clearance.
I need to have a shim of 2.07 for proper clearance.


1mm is 40 thou, so the difference between 2.05mm and 2.1mm shim is 2 thou. Would you expect a noticeable difference in noise with that small a difference?

Did you measure the new shim as well? Is it possible someone has ground the new shim down (then maybe swapped it in at the local dealer).

All the best

Katy
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lihp
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PostPosted: 12:11 - 30 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete. wrote:
A thousandth of a mm is actually a micrometer but you can't use that either because it'll confuse people as to whether you are talking about a unit of measure or a tool for measuring.


Micrometer = measuring tool
Micrometre = 1 thousandth of a mm

Though, the confusion in speech is more likely than in text Very Happy
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lihp
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PostPosted: 12:16 - 30 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Threads like this is why I get worried by "self-serviced" used bikes.

People who don't even know how to use the metric system, unable to accurately measure and communicate clearances with a feeler gauge messing around with valve shims.

OP hasn't even told us what his measured clearances are.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 17:57 - 31 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any news on this. Intrigued to find out where this rattle has come from.
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CHR15
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 31 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

are they over or under bucket shims?
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Hong Kong Phooey
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PostPosted: 23:24 - 31 May 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

OEM do shims in odd sizes like 298. Doubtful you'd need to get it that close as the tolerance span is greater than the 'off the shelf' rounded sizes available in the aftermarket.

You could polish it down by 0.01 per side to tailor an existing shim but as the shims are case hardened you don't want to take much than that off, and it's hardly worth the effort.

Would also require you to invest in digital verniers to check - dirt cheap these days and accurate enough.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 03:11 - 01 Jun 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjdugen wrote:

Its a '97 CBR900RR Fireblade.


...And there, Sir, is your problem!

My 'blades of a similar age were both complete and utter C***ts to get the shims right. I think it had something to do with the fact that unless your torque wrench is absolutely spot on every time you pop the cams back on then that miniscule difference between stopping when the wrench goes click and stopping 5 degrees after it makes the difference between the same shim being tight, right or loose, don't ask me why it is but it was the only feasible explanation for getting different readings with the same shim...in, out, in, out, shake it all about, mutter, mutter, mutter.

All I can say is that I had those bloody shims in and out so many times in the end I said 'f**k it, that'll do'.
EDIT: And it was that way every time I took the bloody readings and decided to try to sort it out, both bikes gave the same problem.
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