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| Wonko The Sane |
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 Wonko The Sane World Chat Champion

Joined: 20 Jan 2013 Karma :   
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 Posted: 15:41 - 04 Aug 2014 Post subject: Should I be getting rid of my small diesel estate? |
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Spotted this and a few other news 'stories' this mornin'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/11006048/Diesel-drivers-should-be-fuming.html
up-shot is, small eco diesels that have been encouraged by lower tax due to low CO2 emissions are partly responsible for the smog we keep getting and the fines the EU hands out for breaching polution levels.
A couple of years ago we bought a 1 year old Ibiza Estate 1.2 diesel for two reasons 1) lots of long drives to visit family back up north, 2) cheaper all in running costs of tax + fuel
We've since moved up north ourselves (north of Manchester) so the we're not doing long journeys as often and the congestion charging issue is of no worry but we find the car a bit underpowered on the steep hilly bits around here (there's one hill start around here that I have to either rev the nuts of and hope I don't wheel spin or I'll stall.) and thinking that if VED for diesel cars is set to rise we might be best moving it on and getting something else.
Any oppinions on it?
I can live with the slight underpowered nature of the car but don't want to be stuck with a car falling in value while costs of running it rise. ____________________ Looking to pass your CBT / Bike tests in Bury Lancashire? try www.focusridertraining.co.uk Would recommend.
They're also on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Focus-Rider-Training/196832923734251 |
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| daemonoid |
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 daemonoid World Chat Champion

Joined: 27 Jun 2008 Karma :    
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 Posted: 15:56 - 04 Aug 2014 Post subject: |
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All previous major VED overhauls have not modified the situation for existing vehicles, so that *shouldn't* be a problem.
Congestion charging will take years before it makes it out to Manchester, especially considering the defeat of it last time it was tried.
You shouldn't be stalling a diesel on hills - they're all torque so you're doing something wrong! And before you ask... Yes I do have some experience of the roads given I have some family in the wilds of Derbyshire. ____________________ current: ducati monster 750
past: hyosung gt250r, bajaj pulsar 180, hyosung gt 125 comet
@thomasgarrard | www.straitjkt.com | www.racingseven.com |
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| stevo as b4 |
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 stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Karma :   
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 Posted: 16:28 - 04 Aug 2014 Post subject: |
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I wouldn't say diesels are all torque, but typically nasp one's develop peak torque at about 1/2 max power engine speed, and turbo diesels often peak lower, though sometimes the torque never actually is allowed to peak, and is modulated to protect the gearbox/clutch.
Older diesels always had a governor that would try to stop a stall, by adding fuel if the load increased on the engine.
But if the engine load is too high for it and applied to suddenly then a diesel will still stall, if it hasn't got the torque to overcome the load applied.
I've always had more time for older diesels as they are simpler to work on and there's only very few seriously expensive parts that can fail, but as long as they are maintained well and not run on used chip fat all the time, they seem to be fairly tough!
Anything Common rail with ECU engine control is more of a pain, and things can go wrong more often, but later 2004> engines with DPF's are even worse and for short small journeys with lots of stop and start, and gentle driving are not worth the hassle.
Start doing big mileages then diesel is at least worth considering, but by no means conclusively better. |
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| Llama-Farmer |
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 Llama-Farmer World Chat Champion

Joined: 23 Jan 2012 Karma :   
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| Ste |
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 Ste Not Work Safe

Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :    
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| andys675 |
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 andys675 World Chat Champion

Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Karma :   
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| krarkol |
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 krarkol World Chat Champion

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| Kickstart |
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 Kickstart The Oracle

Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :     
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| Vracktal |
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 Vracktal World Chat Champion

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| mentalboy |
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 mentalboy World Chat Champion

Joined: 05 May 2012 Karma :   
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| Kickstart |
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 Kickstart The Oracle

Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :     
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| bikertomm |
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 bikertomm World Chat Champion

Joined: 03 Jul 2010 Karma :   
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 Posted: 20:14 - 04 Aug 2014 Post subject: |
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I read somewhere that although diesel may look dirty kicking out all that black soot, and it sure doesn't smell nice - apparently you would last a lot longer in a room full of diesel fumes than you would petrol fumes.
Don't know if this is true or not.  ____________________ 07' Honda Hornet now full powaah! My guide on performing an oil change! |
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| Wonko The Sane |
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 Wonko The Sane World Chat Champion

Joined: 20 Jan 2013 Karma :   
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| Kickstart |
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 Kickstart The Oracle

Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :     
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| Llama-Farmer |
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 Llama-Farmer World Chat Champion

Joined: 23 Jan 2012 Karma :   
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| 0l0dom0l0 |
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 0l0dom0l0 World Chat Champion

Joined: 21 Oct 2009 Karma :  
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 Posted: 14:56 - 05 Aug 2014 Post subject: |
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Part of the problem is technology is too advanced.
Look at what comes out the back of an old school turbo diesel. Big clouds of black smoke. Whilst on the surface it looks bad, the big particles of unburned fuel, or soot are relatively easy for your body to remove.
Modern diesels are creating particles so small that you can't filter them out and such they get in your lungs etc. This is what's causing the problem.. ____________________ CBT Passed: 30/08/2009, Theory Passed: 31/08/2010, Mod 1 Passed: 6/9/2010, Mod 2 Passed: 13/09/2010. Restriction ended 13/09/2012.
Bikes: 2007 Derbi GPR 50, 1998 Yamaha Fazer 600 (written off), 2002 Yamaha Fazer 600, 1994 CBR 600F, 2003 Triumph Daytona 600, Kawasaki ZX6R J1.....Current: 2006 Yamaha FZ6, 1998 Suzuki TL1000R and a Honda VFR 400 NC30. |
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| sickpup |
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 sickpup Old Timer

Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Karma :     
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| Kickstart |
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 Kickstart The Oracle

Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :     
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| Clutchy |
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 Clutchy World Chat Champion

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| Llama-Farmer |
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 Llama-Farmer World Chat Champion

Joined: 23 Jan 2012 Karma :   
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| stevo as b4 |
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 stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Karma :   
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 Posted: 01:26 - 06 Aug 2014 Post subject: |
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You need a contact light haze of grey/black smoke coming out of your diesel tailpipe though if you want it to go properly!
Too much fuel before the turbo has spooled, is bad for smoke, but then a little extra fuel and a big free flow exhaust helps turbo's wind up faster. Once on full boost a wisp of black smoke is definitely needed if you want to make horsepower!  |
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| Llama-Farmer |
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 Llama-Farmer World Chat Champion

Joined: 23 Jan 2012 Karma :   
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| 0l0dom0l0 |
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 0l0dom0l0 World Chat Champion

Joined: 21 Oct 2009 Karma :  
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 Posted: 10:37 - 06 Aug 2014 Post subject: |
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| Llama-Farmer wrote: | Modern diesels (2000-onwards) have EGR valves and whatnot to reduce the amount of unburnt fuel in the exhaust.
Very modern diesels (8 or so years) have DPFs which filter out the larger soot particles, that is why newer diesels very rarely smoke, whereas 10-15 year old diesels still chuck out some smoke under acceleration.
The bigger particles are still a problem though, particularly to people with respiratory problems. |
Be careful. EGR isn't to reduce the amount of unburned fuel in the exhaust, it's to lower the combustion temperature and reduce the rate of NOX formation which is the biggest problem for diesels.
In a sense EGR is what causes unburned fuel in the exhaust. EGR spots in the mix hinder the flame front when it travels through the unburned mixture and leave unburned bits behind. EGR particles also reduce the amount of abundant oxygen in the chamber which doesn't help and a lower combustion temperature isn't good for particulates either.
If you read the article they're mainly focusing on NOx, I made the comment about particulates as that's a by product of trying to reduce NOx...... for the reasons above.
I don't expect it will be long before diesels employ SCR. It's pretty common on lorrys from my understanding, but this will make them even more expensive and less desirable. ____________________ CBT Passed: 30/08/2009, Theory Passed: 31/08/2010, Mod 1 Passed: 6/9/2010, Mod 2 Passed: 13/09/2010. Restriction ended 13/09/2012.
Bikes: 2007 Derbi GPR 50, 1998 Yamaha Fazer 600 (written off), 2002 Yamaha Fazer 600, 1994 CBR 600F, 2003 Triumph Daytona 600, Kawasaki ZX6R J1.....Current: 2006 Yamaha FZ6, 1998 Suzuki TL1000R and a Honda VFR 400 NC30. |
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| Rogerborg |
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 Rogerborg nimbA

Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 11:53 - 06 Aug 2014 Post subject: |
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There's a couple of articles kicking around by German universities pointing out that cars - particularly turbodiesels - are tuned to scam the emissions test. The ECU detects that it's being run under test conditions, dials back the boost and leans out the fuelling.
Hit the real world and it's a very different story. Emissions, they claim, haven't actually gotten better in the last decade.
What strikes me about the environmentalist (and taxation) obsession with CO2 is that while diesel engines do burn less fuel and so shove less out of the tailpipe, DERV and petrol are both fractioned out of the same crude oil. Unless we're actually, literally, planning on pouring half of it back into the ground, it's all going to get burned by someone, somewhere. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| Llama-Farmer |
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 Llama-Farmer World Chat Champion

Joined: 23 Jan 2012 Karma :   
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 12 years, 61 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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