Should I be getting rid of my small diesel estate?

[Wonko The Sane]

Spotted this and a few other news 'stories' this mornin'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/11006048/Diesel-drivers-should-be-fuming.html

up-shot is, small eco diesels that have been encouraged by lower tax due to low CO2 emissions are partly responsible for the smog we keep getting and the fines the EU hands out for breaching polution levels.

A couple of years ago we bought a 1 year old Ibiza Estate 1.2 diesel for two reasons 1) lots of long drives to visit family back up north, 2) cheaper all in running costs of tax + fuel

We've since moved up north ourselves (north of Manchester) so the we're not doing long journeys as often and the congestion charging issue is of no worry but we find the car a bit underpowered on the steep hilly bits around here (there's one hill start around here that I have to either rev the nuts of and hope I don't wheel spin or I'll stall.) and thinking that if VED for diesel cars is set to rise we might be best moving it on and getting something else.

Any oppinions on it?

I can live with the slight underpowered nature of the car but don't want to be stuck with a car falling in value while costs of running it rise.
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[daemonoid]

All previous major VED overhauls have not modified the situation for existing vehicles, so that *shouldn't* be a problem.

Congestion charging will take years before it makes it out to Manchester, especially considering the defeat of it last time it was tried.

You shouldn't be stalling a diesel on hills - they're all torque so you're doing something wrong! And before you ask... Yes I do have some experience of the roads given I have some family in the wilds of Derbyshire.
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[stevo as b4]

I wouldn't say diesels are all torque, but typically nasp one's develop peak torque at about 1/2 max power engine speed, and turbo diesels often peak lower, though sometimes the torque never actually is allowed to peak, and is modulated to protect the gearbox/clutch.

Older diesels always had a governor that would try to stop a stall, by adding fuel if the load increased on the engine.

But if the engine load is too high for it and applied to suddenly then a diesel will still stall, if it hasn't got the torque to overcome the load applied.

I've always had more time for older diesels as they are simpler to work on and there's only very few seriously expensive parts that can fail, but as long as they are maintained well and not run on used chip fat all the time, they seem to be fairly tough!

Anything Common rail with ECU engine control is more of a pain, and things can go wrong more often, but later 2004> engines with DPF's are even worse and for short small journeys with lots of stop and start, and gentle driving are not worth the hassle.

Start doing big mileages then diesel is at least worth considering, but by no means conclusively better.

[Llama-Farmer]

The problem I bet comes mostly from older taxis and minicabs... 90% of the vehicles I see throwing out clouds of black smoke are a taxi of some kind, and most black cabs are 10-15 years old around here, most minicabs 5-10 years old.

Yet I bet most of the diesel cars in centre of towns that would be subject to a congestion charge are much less polluting than the majority of ones that would be exempt as taxis.


Cars fall in value anyway, costs of running them increase as parts get old and fail outside of warranty. Eventually it comes a time where replacing it with a newer car is cheaper than fixing everything that breaks.

I'd just keep it until its no longer viable, don't get rid in anticipation of something that might not happen
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[Ste]

Regardless of what may or may not change with VED, of course you should get rid of your 1.2 diseasel.

Set fire to it rather than selling it to some other poor mug then use the profits to buy yourself something that's fun to drive. Dinodiesel stopped being a cheap fuel about ten years ago so get yourself a petrol car and put some fun back into driving.

[andys675]

you need to do more than 33000 miles over a 3 year period to make a diesel more cost efficient than a petrol (read in auto express)
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[krarkol]

[Kickstart]

[Vracktal]

The only application i'd consider a diesel engine for is in an offroader, because they deal better in deep water and muck and have the torque to pull out of sticky spots.
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[mentalboy]

[Kickstart]

Hi

It is a spread or toque you want for that. And too many modern diesels rely on a big turbo, and land up with a power band the width of a chocolate mouses cock

All the best

Keith
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[bikertomm]

I read somewhere that although diesel may look dirty kicking out all that black soot, and it sure doesn't smell nice - apparently you would last a lot longer in a room full of diesel fumes than you would petrol fumes.

Don't know if this is true or not.
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[Wonko The Sane]

[Kickstart]

[Llama-Farmer]

[0l0dom0l0]

Part of the problem is technology is too advanced.

Look at what comes out the back of an old school turbo diesel. Big clouds of black smoke. Whilst on the surface it looks bad, the big particles of unburned fuel, or soot are relatively easy for your body to remove.

Modern diesels are creating particles so small that you can't filter them out and such they get in your lungs etc. This is what's causing the problem..
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[sickpup]

[Kickstart]

[Clutchy]

[Llama-Farmer]

[stevo as b4]

You need a contact light haze of grey/black smoke coming out of your diesel tailpipe though if you want it to go properly!

Too much fuel before the turbo has spooled, is bad for smoke, but then a little extra fuel and a big free flow exhaust helps turbo's wind up faster. Once on full boost a wisp of black smoke is definitely needed if you want to make horsepower!

[Llama-Farmer]

[0l0dom0l0]

[Rogerborg]

There's a couple of articles kicking around by German universities pointing out that cars - particularly turbodiesels - are tuned to scam the emissions test. The ECU detects that it's being run under test conditions, dials back the boost and leans out the fuelling.

Hit the real world and it's a very different story. Emissions, they claim, haven't actually gotten better in the last decade.

What strikes me about the environmentalist (and taxation) obsession with CO2 is that while diesel engines do burn less fuel and so shove less out of the tailpipe, DERV and petrol are both fractioned out of the same crude oil. Unless we're actually, literally, planning on pouring half of it back into the ground, it's all going to get burned by someone, somewhere.
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[Llama-Farmer]