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| supra3turbo |
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supra3turbo
Nova Slayer
Joined: 11 Mar 2012
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 Posted: 17:56 - 11 Mar 2012  Post subject: New BCF member, with bike problems (CB125 Twin 89) |
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Hello all,
I have just joined this forum as i have been reading a few posts and have found them very useful and helpful.
I have just bought myself a Honda CB125 Twin 1989 model and i got it for a bargain price of £250
The bike is in overall good condition but with the usual wear and tear you would expect from a bike of that age and mileage! (40126.8)
I have only done a few basic checks at the moment as i am working away atm.
The bike turns over freely on the electric start so i decided to do a compression test, if your sat on the bike, the right hand cylinder is at about 130psi BUT the left hand side piston is at 30psi. I will be ordering new pistons and rings soon (possibly barrels as well) but ive not had the engine stripped down that far yet to check, the most ive done is take the valve cover off and everything seems nicely oiled and in good condition.
Are there any major things to look out for on this bike, also i have never rebuilt a 4 stroke engine on a motorbike, but i have rebuilt a few NSR 2 stroke engines so unless i can get a workshop manual ill struggle with the timing and what not. Hopefully BCF will be able to advise me 
Thanks - Joe
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Hoda CBR 600 FX stolen from stalybridge 2017/2018 black
Current Project Suzuki RG125 Cafe Racer |
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| Pol Anorl |
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Pol Anorl
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Joined: 13 Apr 2010
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Posted: 18:13 - 11 Mar 2012  Post subject: |
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Did you buy it from someone called mike?
if so burn it.
also timing is easy as pie, head over to the workshop to find a manual or google for one.
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| nightshaddow |
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nightshaddow
Nearly there...
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
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| Posted: 18:54 - 11 Mar 2012 Post subject: |
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i have one myself and they are real easy to fix up, may not be pistons could be valve clearances/ valves.
to give you an idea of what you face with the rebuild have a look at my thread,
https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=234545
currently nuts deep in the engine as gearbox was knocking and also i had compression of 60 psi on both cylinders.
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"WHAT DO YOU MEAN 100 MPH THATS IMPOSSIBLE Its chinese OFFICER."
Current rides CB 125 TDE(the next project) NS125RK ( now on the road ) CB125TDC (soon to be project 17) melody ( the nephews ) |
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| P. |
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P.
Red Rocket
Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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| Posted: 19:10 - 11 Mar 2012 Post subject: |
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Good name choice 
Tef will be here to smash your face if you haven't checked and cleaned the oil strainer
Ridden one of these before for a while, nice bikes. Really nice actually...but I'd still prefer a bit more modern jap 125's 
Hope you sort it  |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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Posted: 19:33 - 11 Mar 2012  Post subject: |
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| supra3turbo |
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supra3turbo
Nova Slayer
Joined: 11 Mar 2012
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| Posted: 22:14 - 11 Mar 2012 Post subject: |
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After doing a bit of research i think this bike is manageable and should be back on the road within a couple of weeks. Im not too sure about the rear shock comment, as i dont appear to HAVE suspension at all lol. So i presume front seals and a rear shock is needed, they are on ebay for about £50 but a honda genuine one is silly money.
Thanks for the help guys, im slightly more bucked up about the whole ordeal
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Hoda CBR 600 FX stolen from stalybridge 2017/2018 black
Current Project Suzuki RG125 Cafe Racer |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
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| Posted: 13:54 - 12 Mar 2012 Post subject: |
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| supra3turbo wrote: | After doing a bit of research i think this bike is manageable and should be back on the road within a couple of weeks. |
Oh the optimism of Nievity! See, I WARNED YOU! Delusion is already starting to set in.... 
Your compression readings suggest a top end rebuild is going to be on the cards: If you are deft; have the parts and tools, that's a £100-150 job, using generic Jailing barrels off ebay, or getting your originals rebored & using over-size pistons.
Time wise; it's 'about' 12 hours spanner time; with the engine on the bench; if you have the bits and tools to hand and the savvy to do the job. From engine sat in the frame, to out, torn down and back in the frame; with replacement barrel & pistons ready; it's do-able in a week-end; Friday to Sunday Evenings, and you might even get a test ride before dark if you are lucky.
{WARNING:- if it goes together 'easy'; SOMETHING IS WRONG! The cam is a swine to time in, & the Cam Chain tensioner a pig to fit. If it falls together nice and easy, and you dont have a hard time timing in the cam.... then your cam chain is probably FUCKED and likely to snap shortly after re-commissioning! If you have a tight cam-chain, then getting the cam times in is a BASTARD, and depending how far out it is when you start, you can add HOURS to the build time lining it up.}
If you have to split the job, to assess parts, take barels to be rebored, then order pistons to size for the barels; then lead times could easily stretch that ONE task outside your suggested window!
My local M/C shop, usually suggest a working week for a 'job'; so barels, dropped off on Saturday, I might get them back, following Friday afternoon; if I ordered pistons, before 4pm, from some-one like Dave Silvers and paid expedited despatch, I MIGHT get them Saturday morning for weekend rebuild, but more realistically, they would turn up mid-week, for buld the following weekend.
So, flippant comment; about your optimism; BUT; I've done a 'couple' of these; and that two-week, idea is NOT hugely realistic; JUST on the basis of your compression readings.
Head-Stock Bearings; you have link to the How2; I advice paying the extra to get the Taper-Roller 'Kit' From Dave Silvers; rather than generic bearing kit off e-bay; they have the correct seals in them, and they go together easier.
For the forks; not written up for here; as I want to add a couple of pics; but on my webby: HOW To: Overhaul the front forks / Replace fork Seals
Seals are around £5-10 depending where you get them; add £10 for fork oil; and £15 for Gaiters.
{WARNING:- Bought a batch of half a dozen last year; £10 a pair jobs, Lable says 'Hi-Level' and states, "Top Quality Motorcycle Product for the Professionals", yeah RIGHT! Pair on my 750 have perished inside a year. Ones on Snowie's have started to crack & split... ones on Smiler's bike are FUCKED! DONT buy Cheap Gaiters; or you'll be doing the job over, like as not inside the year! Aeriet are reputable; and I have had pairs on my hard worked dirt bike that have lasted years.}
Front end Overhaul, is then about £50-75, and not too onerous. And if you are working with lead times on your engine, jobs you could do as fill-ins. Forks & Yokes, depending how meticulous you want to be cleaning up bits and bobs and painting parts; COULD comfortably be done in a day, or three evenings.
BUT:-
| supra3turbo wrote: | Im not too sure about the rear shock comment, as i dont appear to HAVE suspension at all lol. |
THIS is where you need to start, and do so BEFORE you spend ANY money on ANYTHING else.
Shock? New pattern replacement is now about £90. I dont know what you have seen for £50, but its either not new, or it's not for the Super-Dream.
The more likely 'probalem' though is a a far less easy fix; it will be the rising rate linkage 'siezed'.
These are a mugga-fukka! Its a sophisticated linkage, and not as simple as the modern dog-bone arrangements. AND Honda in thier wisdom, used 'split' bushes on every fucking link.
There are 4 half bushes on the swing arm spindle; 4 more on the wishbone link pins into the swing arm, and 2 more where the wishbone connects to the shock link; which itself has I think 4 more to attach to the frame, then there is 1 metalastic in the shock link for the bottom shock mount.
Each 1/2 bush, is aprox £8-9 each.... that is £150's worth JUST for the bushes...
If the rear suspension is in bad shape, its a real project killer.
Decent second hand rear ends are few and far between; and can be pricey. Reconditioning what you got; using all new genuine bushes and Pattern Shock, possibly a couple of new pins where you have to cut to split a siezed linkage; well, take a look at Snowie's pup Project; I think it took about £250's worth of bits to sort her wobbly arse out 
If you are LUCKY, might pull apart, clean up, grease up and go back together good; BUT, had a couple of bikes that have been so treated (by previous owners) that have rapidly gone 'soggy' pitting in the bush-sleeves, rapidly wearing the plastic bushes; so demanding re bushing soon after re-commissioning.
THIS bit of the bike; is the make or break. So where you start. IF the back end wont free off; or you cant renovate it reasonably cheaply; then potential cost of doing it with all new parts CAN make the entire project nonviable.
AND; a good arse end, is what makes or breaks the bikes to ride.
It's that sophisticated rising rate monoshock that endows the bike with a level of handling FAR above that of a common twin-shock commuter; it's actually more sophisticated than the mono-shock arrangement on many contemporary sports 125's; (CBR125 has simple cantilever monoshock arrangement).
Well fettled, that back end makes the bike a joy to ride; its comfortable, and stable and very agile; (I actually had a lad on L's decide to show me what a YZF-R125 could do in the 'twisties' once, when I was testing the Corporal....only to have him to get smaller and smaller in my rear-view with each corner. Which was rather amusing!) BUT, when they start to wear and get sloppy; the back end sags, raking the steering making it heavy, and the whole plot goes to pot, and they are AWFUL, they ride like a barge and an uncomfortable one at that.
So, overall; you dont have some 'small' task on your hands.
From where you are starting (And I have been there more than once!) I would plan on two weeks JUST to do some initial investigation, and evaluation. And get a handle on what needs most attension.
Starting with that back end, then Brakes. Front brake is another 'expensive' assembly to recondition; has twin pistons, and overhauling that is about £70 or so with new parts.
And I would want to know what needs doing, or could be done with them BEFORE spending any money; that could be wasted if I hit a 'job-stoppa'.
Realistically; I could go from a derelict, to a road-able bike, in ABOUT a month, if I tried, and I didn't have any major hassle's to deal with.
BUT, I am retired; my time is my own, and I could almost give it my full attention, and a 40 hours of a working week, or more till it was 'done'.
That's 160 man hours; working with tools, know-how and a pile of ready spares, and variouse donor bikes..... excluding lead times.
Its NOT a complete non-starter; BUT.... like I said at the beginning; insanity awaits; and that two-week time frame I REALLY believe is hugely optimistic, EVEN if you had nothing else to do in that time, and could give the thing 12 hours a day hands on effort.....
But best advice I can offer, other than re-thinking your time-frame is; ENGINE LAST.
Before you go, make sure you can stop; and steer! Do back suspension first; brakes next; forks and settering bearings after that; Electrics are next niggle and always tend to get last attension, when the bike is running & you are eager to get it ready for an MOT, and are confronted by unco-operative indicators and a horn wire that keeps falling off!
Sort all THAT first; worry about the engine, which only does ONE thing.... shove you forwards.... last.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| pits |
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pits
World Chat Champion
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
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| Posted: 14:02 - 12 Mar 2012 Post subject: |
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Almost seems like you need a Workshop section 
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| supra3turbo |
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supra3turbo
Nova Slayer
Joined: 11 Mar 2012
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| Posted: 15:20 - 12 Mar 2012 Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info, ive had a quick scan through it on my break and im only slightly more depressed than i was LOL.
Ill get to work stripping the bike as soon as i can, that back end sounds like A NIGHTMARE, as was my friends NSR rear shock and linkage, all seized and things.
Will sit down soon and have a real read
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Hoda CBR 600 FX stolen from stalybridge 2017/2018 black
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| nightshaddow |
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nightshaddow
Nearly there...
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
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| Posted: 16:47 - 12 Mar 2012 Post subject: |
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| Teflon-Mike wrote: |
Time wise; it's 'about' 12 hours spanner time; with the engine on the bench; if you have the bits and tools to hand and the savvy to do the job. From engine sat in the frame, to out, torn down and back in the frame; with replacement barrel & pistons ready; it's do-able in a week-end; Friday to Sunday Evenings, and you might even get a test ride before dark if you are lucky.
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only bit i disagree with,
if you are savvy to do the job no more than 4 hours to do a top end rebuild,
i had my engine ready to drop, except that last bolt in 30 minutes
putting the other engine in took 25 mins, (fact it is a different engine and had to figure out the wiring took me longer)
say an hour there,
took me 35 mins to strip the top end down so bank on a normal 45 mins.
leaves me with 1 hour 15 mins to rebuild (easy)
i have done this a few times so give yourself an extra couple of hours, in total for the top end (i have reground all the valves too) i took about 2 hours to grind my valves and fit seals,
what you need to bank on is how the bike has been treated, mine has obviously been abused engine never been out the frame and took 4 hours to get out  but if all went well i rekon even with the gearbox change maybe a day top.
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"WHAT DO YOU MEAN 100 MPH THATS IMPOSSIBLE Its chinese OFFICER."
Current rides CB 125 TDE(the next project) NS125RK ( now on the road ) CB125TDC (soon to be project 17) melody ( the nephews ) |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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| Posted: 17:21 - 12 Mar 2012 Post subject: |
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| nightshaddow wrote: | | Teflon-Mike wrote: | Time wise; it's 'about' 12 hours spanner time; |
only bit i disagree with, if you are savvy to do the job no more than 4 hours to do a top end rebuild, |
Your right; but you haven't allowed any contingency Night'.
I did the first one on the Corporal; Postman delivered barrel kit at 10am, & I had a little bet with myself whether I could get it 'Done' in a day....
Snowie made me pack up at about 9pm, she wanted the kitchen back to cook dinner! So it didn't get finished until the following day, from memory I think about 3pm.
That included removing engine and refitting, and taking step-by-step photo's for the How2.
Yeah 4hours without stripping the head or lapping the valves, sounds not far off. Stripping head, lapping valves; probably about as much again, depending on how bad the seats are.
Fiddly little fuckers they are! Lapping sucker is too big for the head of the exhausts!
6-8 Hours, bench time? 50% contingency for a more usual, but basically 'competant' novice?
For some-one practiced & familiar, with tools to hand; we're in the same ball-park. Depends how diligent you are; how often you refer to the manual; whether you are anal about putting collets in the same places they came from & 'stuff'.
Comment about 4-hours to get the engine out, though is the 'tell'.
Engine dropped out of the Corporal a treat... like it should have. Bike had been nut & bolt stripped & rebuilt; and everything was un-seized, nicely coppa slipped and came apart like it ought to.
Your's probably never been out he frame; was down to big hammers, hacksaws and ultimately the angry grinder to get it out; and a trip to the M/C shop to have the remnants of the engine bolt removed from the casing before it could be re-fitted!
These are the sort of 'niggles' that eat time; we just can't plan for, aren't they? which is why we plan 'contingency' and don't expect it to take the 'job hours' quoted in the Honda Service Manual!
Top end rebuild; isn't major surgery; and CAN be done in a day..... if you have the engine out to begin with, and dont have any-one moaning at you about dinner...
But its the unexpected 'hassles' that add the time; and you can waste days just scratching your head thinking of ways to even tackle the problem; let alone wasting more actually trying some of them! Then more still, fixing whatever damage you have done in the attempt!
This is big part of the 'FUN' ..... and I use the term loosely.... of a 'project'.... if it all came apart easy and went back together without hitch... be rather boring... you've just followed the instructions, and not had to use your brain...
But that's NOT what you actually think at the time! What you think at the time, creates a blue fug of expletives around your head; has other people keeping out of your way; and you calling the bike every name under the son, and wondering why you ever got it....
Until a nearest and dearest over hear you, that is; and offer comforting comment like "Well, dear, you have tried. We did think it was a bad idea"
Which spurs a string of vindictives; "Dont you give me the 'I told you so'! Good bike this; Brilliant little thing, fantastic bargain it was! I JUST.......etc etc etc"
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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